Taylor: Hi! My name is Taylor Swenson and thank you for joining us on Transfer Talks Podcast. And what's your name and what's your degree and how else would you like to introduce yourself?

Kelley: My name is Kelley Mckee. I currently serve as a Learning and Development Analyst for the Division of Student Affairs. I have a degree in Exercise Sport Science from the University of Arizona and I have a Master's degree from NAU in Leadership Development.

Taylor: Okay and then, where do you call home? Where are you from?

Kelley: I grew up in Tucson, Arizona.

Taylor: Okay, that makes sense for the U of A. And then, where did you transfer from?

Kelley: I, from, high school, in 1979, I transferred, I went to Pima Community College for a semester, and then after one semester I transferred to the University of Arizona. 

Taylor: Okay, what was your experience like at your previous institution, your old school?

Kelley: The University of Arizona or Pima?

Taylor: Pima.

Kelley: Well I went to Pima because my sole goal in life was to play volleyball for the University of Arizona and I didn't have the grades, the SAT, or the ACT scores to get into U of A. And so, I was recruited by Joanne Rust, who was the volleyball coach at Pima Community College, and it was really the only opportunity I had. I came from, I had played club volleyball and it was back in the day, and then Tuscon volleyball at the high school's not that good. So I was like, academically, I was so focused on sports in high school, you know, I barely got out of high school. So going to Pima Community College, unbeknownst, I didn't really know this at the time but like it totally shifted me academically. I got all A's, I was on the honor roll and I was like oh, I can do school. And I didn't really have that confidence before and it changed my life as far as volleyball went because I got in really good physical shape and I had a really positive experience on the team. Staying there only for one semester was hard because I was really connected to the team and to the school. But my ultimate goal was to go to U of A, so after that, I transferred. 

Taylor: Yeah, okay, what was transferring like? What was that experience? How did you feel?

Kelley: Well, first, I had to convince my mom and dad right? That was, they're like, they already, they always knew what I wanted to do but they felt like it was too early. And, you know at that time, it was like I just did it, I just registered for class and you know a lot of my experience was related to the team. They didn't know who I was or where I came from, but I don't remember anything academically. I just remember everything sports related.

Taylor: Well also I bet like at Pima Community College and then going to U of A, you had like a good connection, good relationship with your teammates, and support system too.

Kelley: I did and going into U of A, I had none. I didn't have a driver's license. I rode my bike everywhere and I had two jobs. So it was like, you know, I would ride my bike to U of A from where I lived, and then go to school. And then if I was tired, I would sleep in the library. And then, I would go to practice, and then after practice, I would ride my bike to Eegee's. You know the famous Eegee's.

Taylor: Slushies

Kelley: And that was the original Eegee's in Tucson. And I would work, and I would get home at 9:30 or 10 o'clock every night. 

Taylor: And then do it all over again.

Kelley: And that's what I did. And none of it bothered me, you know it was just what I wanted to do to, you know, to make the U of A team. 

Taylor: And then, when you immediately went to U of A, that's when you decided to study Exercise Science? Or were you already on that trajectory at Pima Community College?

Kelley: I didn't have a clue. I don't think, you know, I just never was one of those young people that thought, oh I'm going to be this, this, and this you know. I knew I, I was, Exercise Science at U of A at the time was really a Physical Education degree. So I'm a P.E. teacher. My friends and I who worked at USC together we both were like we're recess majors. We got a degree in teaching. I am a teacher at heart. That's what I did, but it took me a long time to embrace that. To be a teacher, I think it was till my junior year, till I really figured that out. And then I figured out well, what am I going to do after college?

Taylor: Yeah, well it seems like being a Learning and Development Specialist, it kind of aligns with your education background. Even if it was P.E. or Physical Education instead of academics too.

Kelley: Yeah!

Taylor: Yeah. What is a piece of advice you would like to give to incoming transfer students?

Kelley: Find a support system, you know, having a team to go to that at least was organic in a group that I met with every day. But if I didn't have that I, I don't, you know, I didn't want to join a sorority or fraternity, so I would say find a support team like you guys are here. And find a location where you can go and be safe because a lot of times, I always felt like I was transient because I didn't have a place to put my stuff or, so it's kinda nice, I think, to have a place to go to you know with the community. 

Taylor: Yeah.

Katherine: So, I'm Katherine Lawlor, I serve as the Transfer Jacks Coordinator. So when you think about that transfer experience, now that you're a graduate, you know, how did you feel once you graduated compared to now? More specifically, when you think about your transfer experience.

Kelley: When I graduated from U of A? It took me a long time, Katherine. I actually, I'm not sure I would've, I wonder if I would've even gone to college if I didn't go to Pima Community College, you know, and have that experience. So, you know, that, my coach there, Joanne Rust, still one of my favorite humans to this day, you know. So I think it was just a positive ripple effect to my ultimate graduation. And then, my actually career going after that.

Katherine: Nice. And how do you want people to understand that transfer experience as we continue to advocate for students here on this campus?

Kelley: Yeah, I look at it now and I'm just like, I have nieces and nephews who are going to college and like go to, you know, community college for two years. And figure out what you want to do, and get your core courses. Like, not only to kind of ground ourselves but also financially, I think it's just such a, it's like so expensive to go to college. And you can go to college, maybe not live at home but, you know, be close to home and have a job and go to school and really build a good confidence base before transferring. To me, it's like, it's kind of a no-brainer but I don't think a lot of people, I feel like there's maybe some stigma around that in our society. You know like you've got to go to a four-year, which I don't really think is true anymore.

Katherine: Right. Even my parents, you know hindsight it's 2020, they wish financially, that they had sent us to community college first. So, us being triplets, my brother and I went to four-year colleges for athletics.

Kelley: All at the same time?

Katherine: All at the same time. My sister went to community college so she did begin on the community college route. And really her end goal is an Associate's and I think we should just be proud of those who want to get an Associate's as well. But I don't know if you are familiar with it, actually, the President of NAU recently, Dr. Cruz-Rivera talked about the A++ program. And what that's going to do in the state of Arizona, which is going to allow people to confer an Associate's degree by coming to NAU and still getting that Associate's degree from, example like Coconino Community College. So they can still transfer, take classes at NAU, and still get that conferral of an Associate's degree since we don't personally offer an Associate's degree. 

Kelley: Oh, that's awesome.

Katherine: Right.

Kelley: What a great opportunity.

Katherine: So they're working on that currently and I'm excited to see what happens there.

Kelley: Yeah.

Katherine: How did you determine your next step after graduation?

Kelley: Well, I actually did not have a plan. I graduated. I actually graduated the same year as my sister who's two years younger than me, so we graduated at the same time from U of A which was funny, not funny. But anyways, I, you know I got a degree in Physical Education so the normal thing was I then did my student teaching, then I was going to be a P.E. teacher. I got a call from my college volleyball coach and she said, do you want a job? Would you like to be my assistant coach? And I was like, hell yeah. And I took a job for $10,000 and that was my first job out of college. And that led to a 21-year career and you know Division 1 college coaching.

Katherine: Wow.

Kelley: Yeah, so I was, I was lucky, I got, you know, somebody saw something in me that I didn't necessarily see in myself and I, you know, I just transitioned right into coaching. I remember my first year, I called my dad and I was like this is awful like this is the worst thing ever. You know, first job, no idea what I was doing. He goes, he goes, here's, here's, here's what I think. He's like you know what? Don't complain. Listen to what your boss says, and get the job done. And don't call me and complain ever again. So I was like okay! Then I was off, I was off to the races.

Katherine: You said something earlier that was really important. So for my own career path, when it came to education, I didn't do the typical four-year journey which is very common of transfer students, so it actually took me seven years from start to finish, due to various circumstances. So, from when you started Pima Community College to when you graduated U of A, do you remember how many years that was?

Kelley: Well, I graduated high school in '79. And I went to Pima for one semester and I graduated from U of A in '85 so whatever that is.

Katherine: Kind of about six years. 

Kelley: Six years, yeah! I was kind of, I was definitely not on the fast track. But I also feel like, it was right for me. It was just what I needed at that time. 

Katherine: Right, exactly. That's why I'm trying to normalize that experience because many of our transfer students, as much as they would love to graduate in the four-year experience, it's not as common and so that's why we share our experiences so that they know. 

Kelley: Yeah. And I don't think, mine was more of, I just would not just decide on the degree. So I, I think I had like over 130 credit hours when I graduated because I was doing a lot of different things. So once I, you know, just got focused, you know, I got it done, finally. 

Katherine: Nice. What role did your values and identity play in decision-making when it came to your major or career? 

Kelley: Well my identity, sole identity was as an athlete.

Katherine: Right.

Kelley: You know. So, that's a really interesting question, my identity and my what else, my core values. Well, I guess my core values align with the movement piece because I feel like if we move, we live a happier and healthier life. And so, that was, not only being in sports, but being able to step into an environment where you can teach people of all levels to play badminton or play, you know, third grade we did, you know, field hockey, you know, with different kinds of sticks and different kinds of tools. For me, to get into spaces and to teach people to move and have confidence in, to work together as a team., it was just like a microcosm of sports, in a really laid-back way for me. So I think in my core values are health-wise and movement, eat healthy, you know, take care of ourselves, like just move. So I think that's a really strong alignment and you know my identity as an athlete, that's just, I say it's one dimensional because it's been that way for a really long time. And I think, looking back and I think Taylor knows too. You know, when you're an athlete you're so much more than that. Sometimes we don't always recognize that, so.

Katherine: Makes sense, well that's a lot of time being spent during the day so it makes sense as to why we think about ourselves as athletes first. Especially during the college experience.

Kelley: Yeah, well, I'm 60 and I'm still sorting through that, you know. 

Katherine: Well it's part of, if you've ever read in student affairs, it is a theory, college student-athlete is a part of the identity, so it's an emerging theory for sure.

Kelley: Yeah, so I fit right in. 

Katherine: Alright, so this is our fun this or that question. So we do this on Instagram a lot. Where do you like to eat in Flagstaff?

Kelley: I like to eat at Simply Delicious.

Katherine: I have not been there yet. Nice! Alright well, thank you, I appreciate you coming to speak and definitely appreciate you for interviewing and talking about your transfer experience.

Kelley: Well, thanks for having me. 

Katherine: Of course!