Hello, and welcome to another episode of All Things EAP. I'm your host, Carrie, from Xi'an Jiao Tong, Liverpool University. Have you ever heard of translanguaging? Well, it is more than just a password in linguistics. In this episode, I'm going to unravel the myth around translanguaging with my co host, Paul Breen from UCL Centre for Languages and International Education. We are very lucky to have a conversation with Professor Li Wei, a prominent linguist and academic at University College London, and the Director and Dean of the UCL Institute of Education. He is known for his work in bilingualism, multilingualism, translanguaging, intercultural communication, and related areas. His research has had a significant impact on how we understand language learning and use in a multilingual world. We also have another guest joining us in today's episode, Anh Nguyet Luu. Katie, a PhD student from the University of Roehampton, brings us a different perspective on translanguaging as a budding researcher. With today's guests, we are going to have a conversation to debunk the myth of translanguaging. How can language teachers implement translanguaging in everyday classrooms? How translanguaging can be a means of attaining social justice for international students? How to introduce translanguaging practices to EMI language policymakers? What can prospective PhD applicants do to embark on translanguaging studies? I hope you pick up as much wisdom from our great guests as I did and maybe implement translanguaging into your future teaching ๐Ÿ“ practices. So, we are here today with a distinguished panel to discuss the very contemporary topic of translanguaging. Looking at it from a range of perspectives, so that we can get a better understanding of what it is, how it might work in practice, and what it can contribute to our own practice. So, just to begin, I will let our two speakers introduce themselves. So, Professor Li Wei, would you like to begin? .Hello, good to be here. I'm Li Wei. I'm the Director and Dean of University College London's Institute of Education, UCL's IOE, and I'm a professor of Applied Linguistics. My name is Nguyet Leu I'm a PhD student and my research project is supported by the arts and humanity research councils as part of the technique doctoral training partnership. And I also have experiences in teaching professional pre sectional courses and EAP courses in the UK and Vietnam. Okay, thank you. So, just to begin for our audience, I would like you to define your understanding or perception of what translanguaging is. So, Professor Li, maybe you would like to Thank you. I think the simplest definition of translanguaging is that it's an everyday practice that all language users engage in by using their entire communicative repertoire to make sense of and make meaning. The particular point of interest from a research point of view is how language users use elements of different languages and language varieties, styles, genres, as well as other semiotic cues. such as gestures, body language or indeed when we consider the digital domain, color, font style, font size, images, emojis, signs and symbols, and the spatial configuration, in a flexible and dynamic way. So in translanguaging, there is a particular focus on bilinguals and multilinguals how They transcend the boundaries between named languages and the boundaries between language and other symbiotic resources in social interaction. Okay, thank you. And Nguyet, have you anything to add to that? So my understanding of Chinese languaging has been hugely shaped by leading scholars in the especially Professor Li Wei and Professor Ophelia Garcia. So for me, translanguaging is more like Professor Li Wei had just mentioned about. The, refers to the full acceptance and full utilization of multilingual resources and repertoire. So, In reality, we need to acknowledge that all languages and within a person's repertoire contribute to their learning and expression. So it's, it's going to challenge the deficit ideologies that frame you know, especially in the context of UK higher education. Possibly framing multilingual students as lacking proficiency in a so called like standard and target language. So yeah, it's more like to empower both the learner and teacher and transform the power relations in a way that it could open the door for more inclusive approach to language practices and in education and society. Okay, thank you, Carrie. Professor Li obviously is a leading character in the area of language policy and translanguaging. I myself currently am a language lecturer at Xi'an Jiaotong Liverpool University, a Sino UK cooperative university, and I am very passionate about translanguaging as well. So my question will be asked from a more practical and pedagogical perspective. That is, as an EAP language lecturer, how can I apply translanguaging in my everyday classroom? So the idea of translanguaging did indeed come from an educational context. It's useful to outline that context a little bit. It came from the Welsh revitalization programs where the school policy on medium of instruction was Welsh, but we all know there's no Welsh monolingual, so the learners And indeed, the teachers were all bilingual in Welsh and English, and many know other languages as well. So the so called pedagogical translanguaging was to use Welsh and English interchangeably for input and output. Ken Williams, a very experienced language teacher and teacher educator in Wales who was the first one to coin the term translanguaging. He regarded, translanguaging as a way of maximizing the bilingual potential of the learners, even though it may be against the school's language of instruction policy. Now, it's really important to remind ourselves that the so called pedagogical translanguaging was never meant to be a language teaching method. It grew out of a Welsh medium of instruction context, and was very much for content. based teaching to learners who are bilingual. Now in China, there is education of bilingual learners for from ethnic minority backgrounds where translanguaging as a pedagogical principle would be very appropriate. But I think you may be more interested in, or you're thinking more of foreign language education, such as learning English as a foreign language now in second, and foreign language learning. There's been a long debate long been a, a debate on the role of languages one has already learned or known. Do you take it only as a barrier and cause of errors? Or do you make positive use of the knowledge one already has of other languages and the experience of learning and using other languages in the learning of new languages? Learning to use new languages. So to me, the answer is pretty straightforward when you think about it but there, there's been a huge amount of myth and ideological tension around the role of second language learning. So you asked about the practical implications for translanguaging. Now the reality, of course, is no one can get rid of. Absolutely no one can get rid of their first language when they are learning a second or foreign language. We, we, we can't force learners to forget their mother tongue. It really is as simple as that. So any teaching methods in second or foreign language learning must try to make positive use of the learner's knowledge of their L1s. And translanguaging seems to be a pretty straightforward and practical way for that. Thank you so much for your explanations and detailed answers, Professor Li. What about you, Katie Yeah, I think, I think I totally agree with Professor Liwei and, I'd like to add it because I, my particular research is about exploring multilingual student resources in the context of UK higher education with a special focus on authorial voice. So I believe that the practical enactment of chance languaging in the classroom is it's totally start with the positive view of the multilingual students, you know involvement of first language in their meaning making processes. So it's, it's always starts when the teacher start moving away from focusing on that standard. Language, like for example, in the case of UK higher education, which is English academic writing, for example, the teacher should start with engaging with the full linguistic repertoire that the student brings to the table. So we all realize that the, we possibly have realized that the instruction, for example, like international students or multilingual students often came to the UK are often instructed to take like academic writing courses with full of instructions, like rules of dos and don'ts, which are often very one directional and, and restrict multilingual students using their linguistic repertoires. And so I believe that the attempts should be made from to understand like Two way of the discussion where the teacher start learning about the complexity of multi level student academic literacy, where it's like the fluid negotiation of their experiences, linguistic experiences, personal experiences. It's like realizing that all are deeply intertwined regardless when and how they were acquired. Yeah, thank you for that. And I think just that idea of things being intertwined. My next question is based around two areas that I think are very much intertwined in my own practice, and that's kind of the fight for social justice. Not just in education, but in the wider world, and also the making of our British universities and our Western universities, more inclusive spaces for students, and I think you've both alluded to that. So, do you think that trans languaging can be a means of attaining social justice for students of another language background, you know, particularly in the East Asian context? That's a really good question. I know it's been all sorts of claims and, and debates around the power of translanguaging. Personally, I do absolutely see it as a socially just and inclusive pedagogical philosophy where all languages are valued and all knowledge that is acquired through different languages is valued. Can you imagine anyone telling a deaf student that they can't use? Or they mustn't use sign language and can only learn in English. cultural, political, and ideological issues aside, the reality is students learn in a way that best suits them. We've just got to recognize that when there is a huge amount of information available in Chinese and other languages, and the students feel more comfortable and confident in Chinese and other languages, to tell them not to use their languages in learning seems pointless to me, even counterproductive. Yes, translanguaging contributes to equity and social justice in certain contexts, but the most important thing for me is that it maximizes the learner's learning potential. So as educators, we should be more concerned with that above anything else. Yes. Yeah, I think that I totally agree with Dr. Li in a way that that the focus of translanguaging should be placed on maximizing the potential of of the students. So That's similarly in the case of not just Chinese students, but also like international students that their learning capacity should be maximized in their learning environment. So for example, in the case of like academic higher education in, in like Anglophone higher education in the UK, for example despite so the for example, International students and Chinese students linguistic repertoire should be should be valued in a way that they should be encouraged to deploy their full repertoire by it's, for example, like in academic writing, they should be. Prioritize standard norms such as like reduce personal voice using passive construction or like high normalization, for example. But these discourse feature often heavily relied on like English speaker standards, . So in a way where like Chinese Students and international students in general, multilingual resources are valued. It would shape the it would shape the two way interpretation of students linguistic abilities, and then tackle the fact that The richness of multilingual students linguistic repertoires are valued and acknowledged. And then students should be empowered rather than remediated, or like, corrected in such an environment. I'm curious to know then how can we introduce translanguaging to the EMI contexts, especially the EMI contexts in non Anglophone countries? Because a lot of EMI. Policymakers nowadays still endorse the monolingual English only language ideology. You're absolutely right. EMI is a policy, it's an ideology, and a hugely commercialized one too. Anyone who's set foot in an EMI classroom can tell you there is hardly ever an English only EMI class. The learners translanguage in their classroom. own mind, even if they are forced to talk or write in English only. So translanguaging is the reality in, in EMI context, especially. So we're better off talking about medium of learning. Rather than medium of instruction, the learners learn through translanguaging, and translanguaging can enhance learning. So, when, when you say, you know, there is all sorts of debate and concerns, and even taboo around translanguaging in EMI context, that is because of the monolingual linguistic purism ideology, so mustn't mix languages, mustn't keep one language at a time. These ideologies are not at all concerned with the student's learning, it's for political and commercial reasons. We've got to change the narrative, we've got to change the discourse, and really focus on best ways to maximize the learner's potential. Thank you. And what do you think Nguyet? Yeah I totally agree with Professor Li Wei in that way, because it's more important to like, to understand the medium of learning in a way to understand, for example, the students linguistic skills. Linguistic choices and their motivations to use such linguistic choices to, to avoid the one way interpretation of their linguistic abilities. So the focus, it should be like how they use their linguistic resources to achieve their. their learning purposes meant instead of like the language of instruction as in the case of EMI. Yeah. Thank you. I really like the point mentioned by you that the medium of learning is different from the medium of instruction and the use of the existing linguistic repertoire is inevitable in the learning process. Thank you. Ah, so yeah, I was actually just following up from this. So I was going to say that so far, this has been an education for me as well. The next question actually relates to education because one of the things that I notice in my work for UCL is an increase in doctoral or master students exploring issues connected to translanguaging. So what advice would you give to anyone embarking on such studies, and what are the areas that are under researched at the moment? Yeah, so my own result honest advice would be, don't do it because it's trendy. I know people, especially students, see the huge amount of publications that carry the term translanguaging, and they think, oh, I must use that term too, without trying to understand what it really is about. I think that's the wrong approach. Students need to really understand the context in which the concept originated how it has developed over the years what it's aiming to achieve. So translanguage is not simply used in the education of bilingual learners. That's, that's where it started and it's the main domain or context to which the term is being used. But translanguaging is also used as analytical perspective in digital communication, for example, in linguistic landscape work, in language and cognition, and many other fields. So I think, I mean, there are so many really interesting topics emerging from translanguaging. Various parts of language communication research that adopt a trans perspective, as we call it. So try to have a good understanding of the different issues researchers are aiming to deal with. with the concept of translanguaging and other related concepts. And also try to understand some of these newer associated concepts like translanguaging space, translanguaging moment, co learning, and so on. Trans modalities. Transposition is something that I'm developing with colleagues right now. They should be very useful in generating some new ideas for research and expand the, the, the field of inquiry as they were. beyond education. Yeah, thank you. Nguyet that's just very useful advice particular for me as well because I'm an, I'm a doctoral student as well and exploring issues connected to translanguaging. So, yeah, for me, it is a very huge terms and with a lot of things left to explore. And, and for me as well to understand that the term is, it would take a very long time to really understand the concept and relevant issues. And the more that I delve into the topic, I realized that you know, there are a lot of, a lot of issues that remain under research. Why, um, that include, for example, like how the student navigate and integrate tools. Like their first, like their linguistic repertoires, cultural knowledge, personal experiences, alongside with the writing conventions in the environment they're writing in. So basically in more details in like how to understand more nuance. More like two way approach that empower and enable the student to fully utilize the linguistic repertoire, resources of themselves. I think it could be also topics you know, different topics for further research as well. Okay. Thank you. And now just one last question for me. And I mean, just a quick answer is, is okay. But I mean, in English for academic purposes at the moment, you know, we are really trying to come to terms with and meet the challenges of generative AI. So in the area of translanguaging what impact do you think this might have and how can, how can it be harnessed in a positive way? Perfect question and, and a really big and significant one. The idea of translanguaging embraces the concept of multimodalities. We also talk about transmodalities, in fact. So, there is a line of research that looks at how people integrate digital and AI in the process of learning from these perspectives, multi and transmodal perspectives, and the IOE is very famous for that. Now, I've been working with the concept of co learning, where different agents transcend, transgress, and transform any prescribed and very likely asymmetrical power relations in coming to mutual understanding, which for me is the key to learning. And I see generative AI as another active agent in the learning process, as we need to treat it as an integral and equal partner in the learning process. AI is a huge resource for us and we need to learn how to make good use of it. Another line of inquiry is how to break the dichotomy between the so called human human and human machine interactions. In the post human digital era, machines are becoming more human like, more intelligent, and engagement with generative AI and other learning technologies is already having a huge impact on the way we interact with and learn from other humans. So we need a new model that transcends the boundaries between human human and human machine interaction. And that's very much in the spirit of translanguaging. Okay. Thank you. Very comprehensive answer. And Nguyet, anything on that from you? Yeah, yeah. I think that's, that's a very, that's very important point to realize that AI and the digital tool is an integral tools for the learning process. And I just wanted to add that it just, it's not just for the student, but also for the teachers as well in the term of, you know, having positive views of student linguistic resources. So basically they can use AI as to learn more about and to understand more about student language choices and support them. And obviously we also need to be mindful by, we use this tool and ensuring that they are not reinforcing dominant language ideologies, because basically AI and the information that is currently input in, into Generative AI could be influenced by the fact that most of the language are English, for example, and English language writing ideologies could be also be seen as the dominant language ideologies. And instead, realizing that and embracing the full linguistic repertoires. And foster inclusive learning experience should be the one of the helpful yeah, one of the helpful things of AI, I believe. Okay. All right. Thank you. Carrie, do you want to close? so much for the informative responses. Yeah, I've also been reading a lot of papers related to translanguaging, but to share my ideas in front of Professor Li Wei and Katie makes me feel a bit intimidated and very self conscious. Okay. Maybe in a future episode, we can, we can have a gathering again and see, see how things are, are progressing in the field. Yes. That'd be great. That'd be good. Yeah. Thank you. Well, thank you for the opportunity. It's a great opportunity to share the views between ourselves and with others. It's also an honor for me to be here as well to have this discussion with Professor Li Wei, with Dr. Paul Breen and also Carrie. This topic is very interesting and it's highly relevant to what I'm doing and it's also a mind opening experience and learning experience as well. Okay, yeah, thanks everyone. So having had the panel discussion based on the perspective of educators and academics so far, we are now going to get an insight into the student perspective on the role that translanguaging can play in education. Therefore, I have asked Arhadi (Ahed) Zahir, a Palestinian student of English in an English medium of instruction university in Gaza, that I happen to be working with at the present time, what this means to her in her everyday studies. Navigating the academic environment in two languages. So, over to you, live from Gaza, Arhadi, for the student perspective on Translanguaging. Hello everyone, hope you're all doing well. I'm Arhadi Shawish, and today I'm going to talk about how my Arabic language helps me in studying the English language. So, as a native Arabic speaker, I draw on my language and cultural background to study English in similar ways. First of all, leveraging linguistic similarities and differences, which has two parts. First one, convinced and loaned words. Arabic and English share many words due to the hostilical interactions, such as the word coffee. From, uh, Arabic, we say it kahwa. So recognizing these connections helps with vocabulary retention. And the second part, which is grammar. Arabic and English have different structures, but understanding the contracts, we say in Arabic, verb, subject, object. Visit in English, we say subject, verb, object. And that's helped me adopt to English sentence permutation. For the second part, which is translating cultural concepts. Uh, some Arabic expressions have no direct English equivalent, such as the word na'iman. We usually say it after a haircut or a shower. So learning how to explain such phrases in English improves my descriptive skills and depends my cultural understanding. Conversely, I wrote, uh, I relate English items to Arabic also, such as, uh, pray colleague. We say it in Arabic, but they'll fit to grabs figurative language better for the third way I use, which is cultural exposure and code switching. Um, watching, uh, uh, watching Arabic dubbed English movies with subtitle helps refroze, uh, listening, listening and comprehension. We also, uh, I'm going to talk about code switching between Arabic and English in daily conversation, which help with bilingual fluency and cognitive flexibility. So in the end, by strategically using my Arabic knowledge, I create a strong foundation of mastering English while appreciating the richness of both of the languages. And thank you for listening. Okay. Thank you very much for that, Ahed. It was a very interesting contribution and it's great to hear the student perspective from your particular context and EMI university in Gaza. And on that note, I end my participation in this episode of the fantastic podcast for today. โ€ŠThank you so much for listening to All Things EAP. We really hope you've enjoyed it and that you've found something interesting or useful in it. We really want to hear from you as well. So if you'd like to share a comment, suggestion or an insight into something that we've talked about on one of the episodes, please send us an email or voice note at podcast@baleap.org, but you can also get in touch through our YouTube channel, @AllThingsEAP. Thank you again for listening, and we hope that you can join us for the next episode. Take care. ๐Ÿ“ Bye-bye.