David Heflin (00:00)
Welcome back to In the Seams. want to thank you for being part of our listening audience in 2024. I'm not going to be doing a interview today as we do with most episodes. It's just going to be me. And I hope you'll stick around and hopefully I can offer something that will be meaningful to you. My intent is to recap some of the podcasts that we have had over the years. So if you miss some of those, maybe you at least get a snippet here of some of the valuable things that were said.

in interviews that we got to have with many amazing people over 2024. And so this will close us out for 2024 for In the Seams and we'll be back for a new season where we'll try to record more frequently in 2025. I do want to wish you a Merry Christmas and certainly a Happy New Year's. I'm recording this on the 19th. Christmas is nearly upon us and so this will be our last official podcast for that.

In the Seams started, I think this is our third season, so we started back in 2021. You know, we still would love to have more people listen to the podcast. If you will share this with more people, we'd be greatly appreciated. Also, we'd like to have more people subscribe. And so if you listen to this here and there, but you haven't subscribed, we would appreciate that. We would appreciate your rating of the episode as well.

Any kind of reviews that you can give us wherever you might be listening to this podcast I am fighting kind of overcoming a sinus infection So if you hear me cough every now and then my editor John might get that cleaned up a little bit maybe not so I just apologize in advance because The more you try not to cough the more you feel like you have to cough I Wanted to say something about in the seams as a whole over the three years. So we've had

Three thousand downloads or and counting and so it's just about a thousand downloads a year Of course when we first got started that would have been a lot less as we become more known that has increased over the years and You know that is by a lot by comparison to a lot of podcasts It's not a whole lot at this point and we don't as I said have a whole lot of subscribers But it does at least say that you know thousands of people or at least thousands of times people are being

are being impacted by the Broken and Mended Ministry through this podcast, In the Seams. And what I was excited about though, when I was looking at the numbers and we kind of summed this up as we were doing the end of year report, which you can see our annual report, by the way, on our website, under the blog post. And is that we have had this downloaded by in 20 different nations. So I've always been a person that has a heart for work around the world.

I've been to many different countries around the world through when I used to, first of all, I was a volunteer going on mission teams with Let's Start Talking as a ministry. You can look that up if you want to on your own, letstarttalking.org. I'll put it in the show notes. But it's a great ministry and I would go overseas to various different countries and eventually I actually worked for them at full time for about four years as a team developer, as a recruiter. And so I've had an opportunity to go to lot of different places in the world. My wife grew up in Kenya, at least part of her childhood.

from eighth grade through her senior year. That's obviously very impactful to her, her parents were missionaries there. And so we both have a heart for international missions and it's exciting for us to see how Broken and Mended is reaching across the world in many different ways. But I want to say today, especially in regards to the podcast that has been now downloaded in 20 different countries, and we expect that to grow over time.

So I want to take you through each one of the different conversations we had and just kind of not to give a comprehensive overview, but maybe to pick something out of each episode or a few things out of each episode that I think were very meaningful at the time. And it was good for me to go back and review these myself and kind of be reminded of some of the great conversations we got to have over the years from the great people that we got to interview that are doing important work in their own respective ministries. And for a little while.

Anyway, they got to intersect with what we were doing with Broken the Mended and In the Seams. The first person interviewed is Pierce Taylor Hibbs and he's an author. He's written a lot of different books. You can look that up and also all these links, by the way, are in the original show notes. I'm not going to give those links again in the show notes to this particular episode. Only new things I introduced, like when I was talking about Let's Start Talking a moment ago.

Will I put new links in but so you can always go back and check out what they wrote? where their websites are all that kind of good stuff He's also a youtuber does a lot on YouTube and he came to us to talk about anxiety and share his own personal story about anxiety and One of the questions that he really explored is the fact that

You know, a lot of people think that the main point of suffering in this life is for it to be gotten rid of.

It's not to bear with it. It's not to see how God shapes us in it. It's just how can I get rid of this thing? And all of us have that natural tendency, right? As I mentioned, I'm struggling with the sinus infection. Well, I would like for it to be gotten rid of. And I think we're making progress on that. And it's not a chronic illness, thankfully. Anxiety can be a chronic condition, of course, and so can depression and other mental health issues. And I just want to say that

You know, I think it's natural for us to think about how something can be gotten rid of. But sometimes that isn't in the cards. And those of you struggling with chronic illness and chronic pain know that. You've prayed for healing. You've had others pray for healing for you. And at least for the time being that has not come about. Pierce's episode did not explore necessarily why that comes about in some situations and why it does in others. But he does ask that question.

He asks, know, that, or he makes the point that the best thing that happened to you, the best thing that can happen to you is that I become more like the Son of God. And if that's the question, or if that's the goal, then the question is how? How does that take place? And he points to the fact that suffering is a tool in that, and of course that includes mental illnesses as well. Sometimes we treat mental illnesses as different than physical illnesses.

Maybe they have a different way of manifesting in our lives, but there's a lot of overlap there. And the brain is part of the body as well. And so we really shouldn't treat those all that differently. So he asked the question, how can we hold God's hand as you walk through it? And I think that that is a great perspective. He talks about how it is a tool.

Suffering in general, but he's specifically talking about anxiety But he's also given a theology of suffering in this and that it's a tool to be used not just something to be conquered and Encourages us to realize that if you're suffering with whatever it might be that you're in the Christ forming or on the Christ forming road right now and that's Maybe not always easy for us to think of that way

But if you're going to suffer anyway, then why not let God use it somehow in your life? And Pierce Taylor Hibbs then does a lot of different books on anxiety, especially, and just has a lot of great things to say. And so I really enjoyed that conversation we had with him all the way back in January. The second podcast that we had was actually a rebroadcast of a

a talk that I gave at the diamonds conference and the diamonds conference is That pretty much I'm thinking it's it's annual sometimes even they'll have a smaller smaller conferences in between but they usually have one big conference every year and I think I gave it back in March and so probably would have broadcast it to in the seams around the same time and My topic was called embracing a different future

And by the way, should just say Diamond's Conference is a conference for people that have chronic illnesses, chronic pain, and they are gathered together by virtual means. And so it's a way that you can participate from anywhere in the world. And it's also something that's free on the day of the event. And there's another one of these coming up in January. And registration is open for that. Now, if you do not participate live,

the sessions are available for a set fee that you can get all the sessions and have them perpetually. But if you can participate in it live, it's going to be January 24th, 25th, and 26th. I will link that to the show notes. I am speaking at that again as is Tim Gunnels. I'll say more about him in a moment. But my topic last year, or I should say it's this year, almost last year, still this year, was embracing a different future.

Some of the, so this is, I'll just kind of quote myself in that regard here. It says, can lament your losses and embrace the greater pursuit of knowing Jesus. The better life is not the one we thought we were going to live. It is the one God wants us to live right now. So don't give up finding purpose in your painful life.

So I think that that's an important message for people because people do get stuck looking at the life they used to have before they had their chronic health condition and sometimes not being able to let go of that life even when it becomes very apparent that they're not going to be able to get back to that life. certainly when you are first fighting a diagnosis or finding out a diagnosis, you're hoping to find a cure, you're hoping to find answers or you're praying for healing or some combination of those things.

And I think at that time it's appropriate that you're not giving up on your past life. You're still seeing what you can reclaim of it, you know, in the meantime, maybe all of it. But a lot of times we can't. Our lives are usually irrevocably changed by our chronic health conditions, especially the kinds that we are normally talking about with, you know, on broken amended and in the seams, life altering chronic conditions. If you're in a situation like myself,

My life has been altered, but I've been able to maintain a career and I'm very thankful for that because a lot of people you know aren't but I had to give up a lot of things that I love a lot of things I cared about and there's a lot of things I missed out on and couldn't do especially over the course of my my kids lives, you know when they were when they were younger my kids are almost grown now I got two in college one still in high school and You know, but during kind of the prime years of their activity

I was often unavailable to do much that would have been even physically or even emotionally. Sometimes I was withdrawn because I was dealing with some of these mental health issues that come along with chronic illness.

And so I think it's important to understand though, if your life is irrevocably changed, it doesn't mean that God is through with you. As a matter of fact, God can use that thing in your life to give you a new future and to give you purpose through the pain that you're experiencing. It may not be what you wanted, but it really comes down to trusting God. Do we still trust God in our lives when things aren't going the way that we had planned for them to go?

This next podcast, would have been the third podcast that we broadcasted is one called Disease Is Not Your Identity. And it was also a Diamonds Conference presentation by Dr. Timothy Gunnels. We just call him Tim, but he is a professor, he is a preacher, a minister to people in a local church. He has had an incredible struggle with psoriatic arthritis and other chronic health issues.

And he, as I said, his topic is disease is not your identity. And by the way, this podcast, and I don't know all the reasons why, but it is already the most listened to podcast that we've ever had on In the Seams, including those that have been around for a while. And so it really resonated with a lot of people. So if you're not listening to that, then I would encourage you to go back and listen to it.

But weakness is to be embraced as a way of experiencing the power of Christ is the way that Tim framed it during his talk. He gave 2 Corinthians 12, nine as a scripture passage. And I'm pretty sure that's the one that talks about our God's strength being made perfect in our weakness and that we boast in our weaknesses so that the power of Christ may rest on us. It's also the grace is sufficient for me passage.

1 Corinthians 12 is a, did I say 1 Corinthians 12? 2 Corinthians 12. 1 Corinthians 12 is a great passage too and I could relate that to chronic illness because in 1 Corinthians 12 you have the theology of the body of Christ and so, and we're told there that when one part of the body hurts, the whole body hurts and it seems like the church often forgets that when it comes to their chronically ill members of the body. Well, but this was about 2 Corinthians 12 and so that's a good passage to go.

and reflect on at any time. He was bothered, but what he couldn't do as a father, just like I related to from my own experience a moment ago, and he said, I rest in him when I hurt. I rest in him when I hurt. And then near the close of his talk, he said this, and this is what sticks with me from this particular conversation or this particular presentation. No disease.

will ever diminish or determine my value or define who I am in his eyes. No disease will ever diminish or determine my value or define who I am in his eyes. Our identity is not our disease and it doesn't change our identity that we have in Christ. That last part was my own commentary on Tim's quote. But I think that was very powerful and I'm glad that it ended up being listened to by so many people.

Next we interviewed Terry Powell and Terry Powell is also a doctor. He wouldn't let me call him that in the presentation or in the, the interview, but he's been a long time professor, professor. think he's mostly retired now, but he has a website called penetrating the darkness.com. you know, whereas Pierce Taylor Hibbs specialty was in his, is with anxiety really at Terry Powell normally speaks about depression.

And he has had a lifelong, going all the way back to his childhood, this chronic struggle of major depression. And yet finding ways that God still uses him in that and uses him because of that. Terry is such a humble person. He's also written a blog post, which I will, if I can remember, I will link that to the show notes because that's really worth reading.

And we've also published some resources from Terry on our resource page. It links back to a Google Doc that you can check out some of his resources about depression. So Terry has done a lot of good in his ministry. And here I'm going to quote him talking about brokenness from the episode. And I'm quoting him and kind of piecing it together. So if you were to go back and look at the transcript, this would all be there, but some of these sentences might be separated by some stuff I've...

I had to edit out for purposes of this particular broadcast. But brokenness, if it results in a settled posture of my heart and where I am more humble, I'm less prone to be self-sufficient, worry less about what people think of me. I'm more concerned about loving others because of some form of brokenness. And there's all kinds of...

pulling away from the quote for a minute and said there's all kinds of brokenness obviously and Terry had that in mind as he was saying this and then he said if all those conditions are there if this is that kind of brokenness he says all right God I'm ready for you to use me and so sometimes it takes a while for us to get there to really believe our brokenness can be used for any good purpose. The truth is it can and you think about all the people who have ever done meaningful things in this world but just think about the people who've done meaningful things in your own life

and how so often that has come out of some kind of brokenness of things that they've experienced, whether it been a struggle with addiction or struggle with grief, loss of a loved one, or as we talked about, struggle of depression, anxiety, or maybe it's a struggle of incredible physical suffering and so many different things that are a type of brokenness where God is at work. As we would put it here in our ministry, of course, where God is mending

it through his power and strength that in our weakness that we were showing the glory of God and the beauty of God. So great conversation with Terry. If you haven't, if you've not heard that one, I highly recommend it, especially for any of you who struggle with depression in any significant way. You'll notice a lot of our interviews will be with people that have some background with a mental health illness or mental health challenge.

And again, that's because there's so much overlap between that and chronic illness and chronic pain. People that have chronic illness and chronic pain are at a much higher propensity to develop a mental illness. But obviously, that's not exclusive to those of us in that category. we have a much higher, compared to the general population, chance of having some kind of struggle with mental health because of all the problems that

that the pain and the illness and the loss that that brings on.

Shannon Kramer was the next person that we interviewed for a podcast. And hers was based on a particular question. And she's written on this, and she's spoken on this. And she's an author. She's a speaker. She's got a website. And you should go find that in the show notes. Not in this show notes, but go back to Shannon's episode. And you can find some of the links there. Or you can just Google Shannon Kramer. That's Kramer with a C. Excuse me.

She asked the question, is God punishing me? And so she is writing from a perspective mainly of many years of dealing with chronic health and chronic pain. And she talks about really how she's written this book that is the outgrowth of more than a decade. And so it took a long time for her to write this and it just eventually became this very thorough book, very personal book, devotional oriented book about

you know, about these kinds of questions that we might think of when we're suffering, or people might even suggest to us something like, well, if you're going through this, God must be punishing you, or you must have something deficient in your faith. And Shannon, of course, debunks that idea very well in the episode. And one of the points she makes is that any punishment that was due to us, if we're a Christian, so if we're in Christ, then our punishment has already been dealt with at the cross.

God doesn't need to punish us because of what Christ has done for us. And then she goes on to talk, and I think this was the most interesting part of the conversation, godly sorrow versus false condemnation, because we can get those mixed up sometimes. Look, God does convict us of sin, even as a Christian, right? The Holy Spirit does. And when that takes place, it's natural to feel some level of embarrassment or shame for what we've done.

sorrow of course as the term godly sorrow implies and to ask the question about What are we supposed to do with that? And so this is what she says about godly sorrow She says it's holy the Holy Spirit convicts you convicts you of a specific behavior So that you can move so that you can make positive behavioral changes I'll say that again because I kind of stumbled over that but the Holy Spirit convicts you of a specific

Behavior so that you can make positive behavioral changes. It's a very practical purpose in godly sorrow false condemnation meanwhile stays very vague, it's it's accusatory you kind of self-accused right you Tell yourself you're no good You'll never you'll never be accepted by God or whatever it might be or I'm worthless those kinds of things are vague

They're not about a particular behavior. They're generalizations That are not even true when we consider what God has done for us in Christ and she also says unlike Godly sorrow which leaves the chain changes False condemnation is spiritual spiritually paralyzing because if I tell myself I'm never gonna get I'm never gonna do this I'm never gonna be good or I'm never gonna be able to overcome this or I'm just a loser or whatever it is. I might tell myself

How does that motivate action? just motivates me to give up. And so I just thought that that was a great insight by Shannon, really enjoyed the conversation that I had with her. And we may have Shannon speak at a conference that we're planning, by the way, for next year. The plans, speaking of vague, the plans are very vague on that right now. But Shannon had agreed to be a speaker in 2024 for us when we decided that we weren't quite ready.

didn't quite have the time to set up that conference and it didn't really work out for her either. And we were going to have a just a mini conference. We're going to have three speakers, each of them give a session and do a Q &A with all three of them at a panel at the end. And so that's kind of the model we're looking at for some time, maybe in the fall of 2025. But Shannon would be one of those speakers if it all can line up schedule wise, if we get that set up. So all right, well, this next interview,

You know, if you're listening to this and you're one of our former guests, don't take offense if I tell you that my conversation with Erin and Trina was my favorite of the year. And the reason I think for that is just how deeply personal their story was, how they told it together. And because of one kind of formative question that Trina believes that God was asking her.

during her struggle. the story is really the power in that interview as they talk about some of Trina's struggle with Lyme disease. But then how they lose a child, a child that they are told is going to result in a terminal diagnosis. They're given a terminal diagnosis for the child before the child was even born.

But they choose to bring that child into the world anyway, and he ends up living for a few hours. And such a sad story, it's a powerful story though about what God has done in their life through these experiences. They have a ministry called abiding. I think it's abiding in him or abiding, but you can look that up in their episode notes too. But the question that Trina felt God was asking her,

When it comes to their son, I believe it was, I hate to get the name of their son wrong. I think it was Ori as in short for Orion. And so I hope I got that right. I looked it up beforehand, but I didn't write that part down on my notes. But the question was, do you trust me to write him a different story? And that question just really captivated my own mind and my own heart.

Because we have to, I adapt the question a little bit, but I asked this question, do I trust you, you as in God, to write me a different story? Because it's not the story I would have written. And almost everyone listening to this would also say they're not living the story they would have written. And the question really comes back to trust. Do you trust me, God speaking to us, right?

Do you trust me to write you a different story? It was a great question. It was a great interview, a powerful testimony. Again, not one that any of us would choose for ourselves, but one that is helping so many different people. If you've not listened to that interview, I would definitely recommend it. My next conversation was with Amber Ginter. And Amber, she has a very interesting ministry because it really focuses again on mental health.

But particularly, and I think it's applicable to any of us, but particularly those in Gen Z. And so if you're a Gen Z person, you struggle with depression, anxiety, any related mental health illnesses, then I would definitely check out Amber's ministry. She's got a great website, got some other ways in which she's ministering to people. And I would say, you know, if you are listening to this like me and you're a parent of

Gen Z kids, it might be a resource that your kids could use and you would want to point them, you know, toward. And so she has a ministry called, and she has other ministries, but this is kind of an interesting one to me called Light in the Darkness. It's a dance ministry. And so I just, and I don't remember all that we said about the dance ministry and how exactly it works and all that, but it was just interesting to me that

for someone to be looking for how God can use dance to encourage people who are struggling in some way. But a couple of things here. I want to read a quote from the episode. And she's speaking at this time about maybe Christians who haven't been really helped very much by their churches and how even some of them give up their faith or some of them what the popular term now called deconstruct.

And that part of the reason why is they're not being given real answers for how to deal with the problem. So this is what she says about these people. She says, these are Christians that are already doing the things they're supposed to be doing, and they just need someone to validate it. They need someone to give them a real, practical answer instead of just go read this Bible verse and pray more. And I thought that was very insightful. And I think about how

I'm a good friend of mine one time when I was in a crisis, an emotional crisis time, tried to cheer me up in that way. And it's not that the Bible verse wasn't relevant. It's not that what he was trying to say wasn't relevant to what I was going through. It's that that wasn't helping me directly with the problem in the moment. I may need the Bible verse and I may need to pray more.

or maybe are repraying a lot, who knows? But I also need real tools that are gonna help me as I struggle through these very real challenges. And we need to validate those challenges in our churches. So Terry Powell speaks about this too, but so does Amber, Amber Gunter, in talking about how churches have treated this mental health crises like they're totally separate from the physical realm.

as if that is, that if you have a heart defect, well, that's obviously a physical problem. But if you have a mental health illness, if that's the word they would use for it, if you have a mental health illness, then well, that's that's something else entirely. That's a spiritual problem. So you go fix that in your relationship with God and then get back to me. But that's not helping people and it's causing people to turn away because they're being told that their faith isn't good anyway. And so that's, that's gotta change. And both Amber and Terry have,

Speak to how that is changing over time. There are more resources resources in this area available Churches are a little bit more aware of it But they there's there's just a long ways to go in in that in that regard and so that was an important conversation that had with amber and finally close with one about Conversation I have with Mandy farmer the most recent one just a few weeks ago, and she's a children's author her

book that we were talking about is soft hugs for mommy. And we're using, I thought the conversation with Mandy was important is because there's another element for those of us who have chronic illnesses and who have kids, particularly kids that are still small in the home, kids that we may have a hard time explaining why we can't do such and such or, you know, or I was able to do that last week, but we can't do it this week because I don't have the energy.

You know, how do we talk to them about our physical condition? How do we help them understand that it's not because we love them less that we're not able to do this particular thing or In a health and so her book and I've not read her book. I just talked about it I'd like to get a hold of it sometime but it particularly is a it's a fictional story about a mother with fibromyalgia and I believe the kids I can't remember the kids a son or daughter doesn't matter. I mean it matters for you the book It doesn't matter to my point right now

And, the whole point is the mother shares with their child in this story that she's written about her disease. the soft hugs comes from that idea that people fibromyalgia, you know, they're sensitive to touch. And so a hug could literally be painful for them. And so it's, that's why it's called soft hugs for mommy. But we talked about it in the course of the conversation that it is a book that

It could be applicable to any type of chronic illness that you want to talk with your kids about. so I thought that's a great resource because I wasn't aware of there may be some other stuff out there. In fact, I think recently I had my friend Andre's and I came across something that was very similar. I can't remember what it was, but there was another book, a children's book that kind of had this concept in mind. But Mandy's was the first that I'd become aware of in that regard.

And so I think that's awesome and I think it's so needed and I relate to it from when my kids were small. So my kids are, as I've said, they're mostly grown now, but my problem started in 2011. My kids were in elementary or not even in elementary school when all that started. So that would have been a helpful resource for me back then. She has a devotional book that she's working on and she has kind of a unique way of using.

Music and other other avenues in order to impart these devotional lessons. She has a book she's working on I think it's gonna come out maybe later this year. I can't remember exactly But she has some other resources and a website in the way that you can subscribe to her website and get some other you know helpful tools in your inbox and so Mandy does a lot of a lot of work for people with chronic illness and chronic pain and I would say another thing too about Mandy's she just has a unique story about

She didn't set out to be an author. And it just talks about the situations that just kept coming up in her life where she was asked to, or someone prompted her, inspired her to write something and how God blessed that something that she did. And it just kept kind of getting bigger and bigger. And it seemed like a very authentic story about how someone with no pretense of setting out to be an author ends up becoming an author because that's what God wants them to do. I can relate to that in the sense of being a preacher, by the way.

I had no pretense of being a preacher. But in some ways, God just wouldn't let me escape that calling. Eventually, I embraced the calling. I'm not saying that I didn't like it, but I would say that it was not what I set out to do. so it kind of speaks to the testimony of how God can work in our lives through unexpected ways, which could kind of be a theme through all these conversations that we had. These different stories that people live that they didn't expect.

And then I'll just wrap it all up in that regard by going back to that question. Do you trust me to write you a different story? Question that God is asking us. And because sometimes what can come out of that story is far better. And maybe again, it's not what we would choose because it would hurt. It was painful. It is painful. But yet it ends up blessing people in incredibly profound ways. And so to come to a conclusion here, I want to mention

You know, one other thing, I talked about my time as being a preacher almost like it was past tense. I'm still a preacher in my church, local church, and will be until the end of February, but that period of my life is coming to an end. By the time I wrap it up, I will have been a preacher for 20 and a half years, started in August of 2004. And the reason why that's coming to a close is because there's so much more that needs to be done with broken and mended.

that I feel called to do. And of course, that's not just me. There's a lot of people involved in it there will be even more as we expand what we're doing. But in a sense, it has to be me that takes a step because of course, God has given this vision to me initially and has grown this out of my own story. Again, a story, a different story that he's writing.

than what I would have written myself. And as I take that step, I'm going to become the full-time executive director for Broken and Mended. And so it's a step of faith because the funding, we wanted funding to kind of get in place before this ever happened. And it just seemed like we didn't have the time to raise the funds until someone took the step. So we were kind of caught in between. And so we're in that process now of making sure there's enough funding for me to take that step.

But I'm going to take it. So, I mean, it's, I've already told my church, they know it. And so we're just trusting that God's going to provide. And some of the pieces of that puzzle have come into place. A few others have not. And it's kind of a, there's kind of two parts to it. And one of the parts to it is 2025. I need to be funded and Broken Amendment needs to be funded for that year. But beyond that, we're looking at how we can get to a place where we can be funded in a way

that will help us not have to focus on trying to find our funding for every year. If that makes sense, we're trying to find a more long-term strategy for the financial viability for broken and mended, which I believe will eventually work itself out and other people coming to work for broken and mended and working on other special projects that the ministry wants to undertake. And so, I would appreciate your prayers as we make this transition. I think it will mean in a practical way. If this is your only contact with our ministry, then

That's okay. And you can continue to listen to In the Seams. Probably will be more podcast episodes next year because I will have more time to work on those. Obviously won't be the only thing I'm working on, but it'll be something I can invest a little bit more time in than I've been able to. We've never been able to do more than 10 in a year. We did 10 our first year. did nine. This is the ninth one this year. And so sometimes it's been a challenge to do as many. I mean, when I first started this, I wanted to do twice a month.

And then I switched it to I want to do one podcast a month and one blog post a month that seems attainable right well broken amended just continued to kind of grow out of control and then with my I work with pastoral work as a preacher and and everything involved with that It just I just couldn't have even if I had physical time on the calendar I lack the emotional mental capacity to continue to be able to produce new content so I look forward to maybe be able to bring some more varied offerings as well as

More in quantity as well. And I would say that would be something beneficial to you, the listener. If you're so moved and if you're willing to consider helping out Broken and Amended in its mission, go to brokenandamended.org, click on the donate page there and you can find a way to do that. Any amount helps, whether it's one time or monthly. We are particularly looking for monthly partners, people who will really take this ministry as part of what God has called them to do in their own life.

even if it is in that, you know, just that way of financially and prayerfully supporting, you know, broken amended, because that's what's going to allow us to continue to build up the ability to, to do more in the future and to do more of it even better, so to speak. So I, I'm going to, I don't do usually big fundraising pitches on this because the main reason is because a lot of people with chronic illness, they already have a lot of financial burden. But

I just feel like it's appropriate every once in to give you that invitation. And I think it's important for you to understand the reach of this ministry and its potential to reach around the globe. I mentioned the 20 nations that we have in the seams. There's also eight nations now that have broken amended support groups. There's 251 groups total. And that's always kind of a moving estimate, but I that's what I counted up last time. 3,000 plus

people that have been involved in support groups. And so it's just a lot of people that we're able to reach. And this is really a global ministry that God is using in powerful ways. And if this is something that God might move you to consider, to help this ministry to prosper and to reach, do what God has called it to do, to connect hurting people to Jesus and to each other, then be thankful for that. Be very grateful for that. So you can find all that on the website.

You can find more resources on the website. can find our blog, you know, just a few entries this year, but we have a few things recently. And, you know, you can find out about our support groups, online support groups, our Facebook group, all that, all this, all that good stuff is on other resources is on our website, brokenamended.org. So thank you again for being with us in, in 2024. I hope you have a great 2025 and look forward to bringing you more in the near future.