00:00:00 - Johnny Sanders
Do you have a child that is gender confused? Are you the parent of somebody who is either identified as transgender using different pronouns or some other type of gender confused, just propaganda being shoved down your kids' throats? Well, I created the biblically parenting gender-confused children support group for parents just like you. The support group is completely free. We meet monthly and you are able to connect with other like-minded Christian parents who are struggling with how to parent children who are gender confused. They're getting all sorts of nonsense brought to them by the world and I want to help connect parents that are going through similar struggles and be able to tackle this issue through a biblical worldview. If you are interested in joining this group or know somebody who might be interested in this group, head on over to faithfullyengaged.com. and there's more information about the support group there. I have a link down in the description below. Well, welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. I'm really excited today to have our guest on today. His name is Logan Hufford and we're going to talk a little bit about sexual addiction, porn and just how that could wreak havoc on, on your marriage, on your relationships, but also that there's hope that there is a way out of that cycle as well. So, Logan, it's great to have you on. Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

00:01:48 - Logan Hufford
Sure. I so appreciate you giving the opportunity to come on and dive into this topic with you, Johnny. Yeah. So I am up here in Alaska, born and raised up here, 34 years old. Been married for 13 years. Me and my wife Carrie have four boys, ages twelve through eight. And like, I could, I could go down the list and talk about, you know, what we do for our free time and, you know, the fun that we get to have and enjoying Alaska and all these things and all that's true. But none of that stuff would be here if it weren't for recovery. I lived in addiction, which completely trapped me in this whole other life. And I got myself trapped. I always emphasize that addiction didn't happen to me. I created an addiction. But I mean, for years I was in that addiction. I was living in this cave and I didn't think that there was a way out. Didn't think I could ever stop cheating on my wife with pornography, affairs, prostitutes, all this stuff. And for the last eight-plus years, God has just done incredible, transformative work in my life, in Carrie's life, and in our family as a whole. And so I'm just, you know, in this process, I've been working locally for several years now, working to give back with men locally and still continue to do that, just like men worked with me when I was new in recovery. And right now I'm in a season of, you know, just doing what I can to try to spread the light and put stuff out there for people on a broader scale, which is why, know, you and I are sitting down talking about it right now and why I do what I do on Instagram and so on and so forth.

00:03:27 - Johnny Sanders
Yeah, great. I'm interested. Before we kind of dive into this, there's some people that get caught in porn addiction or affairs or whatever it may be, and maybe that's before they were involved in church or had a relationship with God in any way. But others, it's more of a convicting process that we've had situations I've known in churches I've gone to over the years where professing believers and still get caught up into that, into that sin on this for people that, because I'm primarily talking to a Christian audience here, for the people that are Christian and they're caught in this, there's obviously a lot of guilt, a lot of shame, things like that involved.

00:04:20 - Logan Hufford
What.

00:04:21 - Johnny Sanders
What do they do? How do you even start that process when you're in that position?

00:04:28 - Logan Hufford
And that, that is me, that absolutely, absolutely sums up, you know, what things were like for me because I was raised in a healthy infrastructure, going to church, learning the Bible, not just like a cultural, like, oh, we go to church on Sunday. Like, no, it was, I was raised in a really, relatively speaking, like a very healthy, very safe, very loving upbringing with a home where, you know, we weren't just taught the right things, we were taught why the right things matter. Like, it was my parents did a great job raising us and instilling biblical principles in us. But, you know, I always point out, like, I could be given the greatest infrastructure in the world, and that's not bad. It's not bad. To give your kids a great infrastructure is a good thing, but it's not the same as if I have built my own infrastructure because I recognize the need for it. And of course, I didn't do it by myself. God, you know, filled people in my life in recovery. But, you know, me being born into a great family life, knowing the right things, knowing what the Bible says, all that stuff, all of that was not enough to keep me from chasing after sin. And so, I mean, I got into chasing after porn and chasing after, seeking attention from women and all these things. And, yeah, absolutely feeling the shame, feeling the guilt, knowing that it was wrong, knowing all this stuff. But I also knew my Bible, and so even certain verses, because I had the knowledge of the verses, those would be enough to, like, not that they're not putting blame on the Bible, but it's like I would feel the conviction of certain verses and, and not see the grace and so, and not see the way out as I knew. Okay, first Johnny. Like, I'm not walking in the light. So I guess I. I guess I must not be one of God's children, right? Like, I guess. I guess I missed the boat, you know? And so I. I mean, for a lot of years, I lived in this space where it's like, I'm fully aware that I'm actively sinning against God. I'm fully aware that I'm just, you know, separated from God. I'm not living in the light at all. But, I mean, it got to a point. By the time I was in my twenties, married with kids and this whole way of living, I trained my brain to chase after new, different, you know, various forms of depravity. It become a way of life for me. It would become muscle memory for me. And so I absolutely felt trapped in it. Even in my darkest times, I always knew that it was my fault. I got myself here. Nothing pushed me into addiction. It was nobody's fault. But there was no off button that I could just hit. I truly did not fathom that there was a life for me that didn't include porn, that didn't include having affairs. I just succumbed to this idea that, like, that's just who I am. I guess.

00:07:39 - Johnny Sanders
You know, that really leads to my next question. What you're just addressing there, talking about just addicts in general, this is just my own kind of mental image. When I hear the word addict, I think of somebody, like, with the brown paper sack on the side of the road or something that's drunk or on drugs or whatever, and there's obviously a physical dependency with some of that. But with substance use, sex is a little bit different. It's obviously physical in nature, and there's all sorts of dopamine rush and things of that nature, but it's not this foreign, like, chemical substance that, that's in you. So with that, I know that that hits differently. You have that knowledge that this is wrong, but I'm stuck. I don't know how to get out of that and leads into, like, well, obviously you've changed. Other people have changed. What's that catalyst? Like, how can a sex addict in that way, especially a Christian, take those steps to find that hope and get out of it?

00:08:56 - Logan Hufford
I mean, all I can do is I can look back at my past and I can tell you what God did in my life. Recognizing that, you know, that it's not all going to be prescriptive for every person because everyone's going to be in a different spot, everyone's going to have different resources around them. And all this, like, I'm looking back, I'm so incredibly blessed that this group, prodigals, existed. There are not many groups like it. Christ-based twelve-step recovery group, super intense, very rigorous, incredible track record, incredible traction spanning literally a couple of decades. And specifically for sexual addiction. There's not a lot of groups like that. And yet I'm up here in Alaska, we have less than half a million people. I think that's accurate. We have about half a million people maybe in the entire state. And yet there was a prodigals group here. Like, that's an incredible blessing in and of itself. I didn't even meet my mentor at a prodigals group. I met him at a different twelve-step group and he just happened to be there because he and his wife had moved to a different city. And so that's the only recovery group in the area. So they were attending there. And so, like, I met him not even at the group that would be like the group that was the primary, you know, area where I would experience my healing. But I met him there, you know, God put him there so that I could meet him and have, start building that relationship. So for me, sorry, like, let me go back to your question, which, I mean, it started with, for me, I got an ultimatum from my wife. She had known about multiple affairs. She had known that I'd been struggling with porn for years. She knew that we were raising little kids. She's got no clue how to respond. She's living in survival mode. She's trying to change diapers and cook dinner. And she's got her husband coming home every so often, confessing another affair or catching me coming out of the bathroom because I've been looking at porn. She's got no clue what it looks like to have a healthy response to that. Right? And of course, she's going through her and she would tell you all this. Like, anything I share from Carrie's perspective is not speculation. This is straight from her testimony, straight, you know, straight from her mouth for years, starting at, you know, 2011 is when I first confessed to the affair. That was when I was at the end of the year, we'd been married for six months, and I wrote her a letter sharing that I had started cheating or that I had been cheating on her. At that time, I thought I was going to be done. It did not stop. But, I mean, so for the next several years, she knew about all this stuff. And so she's going through the stages of, like, trying to be prettier, trying to be more sexually available, trying to be a better wife because she's thinking I'm cheating on her because she's not enough. Right. She's thinking I'm cheating on her because she's not giving me. No, it had nothing to do with that. It was. I chased. I trained myself to chase after new, different, more depravity. Right? So she finally gave me an ultimatum in 2015, the summer of 2015. And, I mean, that is the first landmark. When I look back at my story and what God has done in my life, I see that as, like, the first landmark where things were different. Things started to be different. Now my sobriety date is May of 2016, May 19, almost a year after the ultimatum. So there was not a. It's not a quick switch of the quick fill. Yeah, I can't talk. Maybe that would take that one out. It was not quick. You know, the switch gets flipped, and I'm healthy now. And, of course, even after, you know, sobriety, it's not like, on May 20, I just got healthy, but it was a progressive victory. But when she gave me the ultimatum, that was when I knew I had a problem. But that's when I was like, okay, now it's come home to roost. Like, I got. I have to make a decision now. I can either try to really, truly do whatever I can to seek help, or I will lose her. I will lose the kids, because, as we said, if you don't get serious help, you're going to lose me and the kids. And I believed her. So I started to do things differently. Now, that's really weak verbiage, but it's accurate. I started to attend some meetings. I started to, you know, reach out to some people. A lot of it was half-hearted, checking the boxes, doing the bare minimum. This is one of those instances where I'm not necessarily saying this is prescriptive because I didn't do all the things I should have been doing. And, you know, people even said, like, well, shouldn't she have left you? Like, I didn't have another sexual affair, but, I mean, I still looked at porn, you know, over those next several months, off and on, I would. I would have some good days and I'd have bad, that kind of thing. But again, like, we're still learning what it is to be healthy, right? But her giving me that ultimatum was so huge, and that was. That was the Holy Spirit working in her because she had no training on how to respond to this. She. She had not been through any sexual betrayal, trauma counseling, or anything like that. Like, she would go on to take part in and now leads other women in that. The only. The only explanation is, like, no. Like, God gave her that strength because, for the first time, she stood up to her abuser and said, you know, I can't control you, but I can control my response to you. And that. I mean, that's from her side of things like that. That is the whole key to this, right? So, you know, I met Rick a few months after that. Kind of kept him at arm's length and, you know, like, I was glad I met a guy, but, like, okay, I'm just. I'm just trying to, like, you know, again, just do the bare minimum. And then eventually, in March of 2016, I went to a prodigals group with him. Just, like, make him happy, get him off my back. Because at that time, I was like, I was. Here's how hopeless I was. I was looking at porn less. I wasn't doing as many things. Like, I was still flirting with women occasionally. I just wasn't having sexual affairs as broken and messed up as I was. I was like, well, I'm doing better because I'm not doing as many bad things as often. That's how messed up I was. But I did go to that prodigals meeting. And then I would say that's the first time where I had hope because at that meeting, I'd already met Rick. So I'd met one man who had had a sexual addiction past and had healed from that, but he's just one man, right? But now I met multiple guys who had stories like mine but had healed from that, who had stories like Rick's. And so now it's like, okay, there's. There's something here. And I'm like, I don't know what these guys, you know, had to do, but okay, I think I'm willing to try and, you know, still drag my feet. Still did the bare minimum for a few weeks, but started in the. In the mentorship program, May 19 was the last day that I acted out of 2016. And starting on May 20, I mean, again, it wasn't like I became a healthy person, but there was a line in the sand. Starting on May 20, I got into the program, started doing recovery homework every day, making phone calls every day, and working with Rick. And I was in this voluntary house arrest program for two years and he was my primary mentor sponsor. But other guys were working with me as well, with accountability and mentorship and coaching me on going through the twelve steps and everything. And it's an incredible program because it's centered around basically three pillars. First and foremost, it's Christ-centered. Absolutely. Recognizing that I can gain traction and sobriety and things like that through hard work, through man-made tools. But true transformative healing only comes through a relationship with my creator and my savior. So it's a relationship with Christ. Secondly, it absolutely dives into the science of how my brain works. You mentioned, you know, the dopamine hits and all these things that are happening because I had no clue how that worked. I had no clue that when, you know when I say it's an addiction, just like an addiction to drugs, that's not a metaphor. That's not, I mean, no, it, absolutely, I'm getting hooked on chemical responses. Absolutely. So it dives deep into the science. But the third pillar and this is where it's huge because it's got to be all three of these, in my opinion. It also hinges completely on practical, concrete, tangible changes like what things am I going to be doing differently? Because I can say I'm going to be a better Christian. I can say I'm going to chase after Christ. I can say I'm going to read my Bible. I can say it. And I might mean all that. But if all I do is say those things and think those things and feel those things, if I don't actually put anything into place, measurable changes, it's not likely that I'm going to have long-term, sustainable, healthy changes. And so it's not one or the other, it's all three of those centered around Christ, but built on a scientific and a practical background as well. And that program, I graduated from the program in May of 2018, but I've never left that infrastructure in the sense of, you know, kept going to meetings, kept making phone calls for quite a while, and still have relationships with a lot of those guys. And now I lead a prodigals chapter that Rick actually started a second group. And then when he moved away a few years ago, I took over that group. And so recovery has never left my life. It's never left Carrie's life. She got into sexual betrayal, sexual betrayal, and trauma healing shortly after I got into the program. So in July 2016. She now leads women through sexual betrayal, and trauma healing through a local group called Partners in Process.

00:18:41 - Johnny Sanders
So much to unpack through there that just a lot of really big good things. One that I wanted to point out, I think you did a really good job of balancing. Hey, I own this. Yeah. Addiction didn't just fall into my lap without anything I did like it was. I take responsibility for that. And you take responsibility, too, for how you. How you responded. You could have shown up to one meeting and not gone back. That was within your power, but you didn't. You kept going. So there is the human-like response behavior piece, right? But it's not separated from. From God. God is the one that. That gives you that grace, gives you that forgiveness, gives you the strength to push through it, even though you don't feel like you didn't even have that hope there, but he gave that to you. It's not one of the other. Sometimes, Christians, we can be almost a little lazy. Sometimes it's like, I'll just read my Bible and pray, and then, yep, but God's got it. We're good. And it's not quite that easy.

00:19:56 - Logan Hufford
Well, and I don't want to. I never want to get, like, too hung up on, like, a straw man argument here, but I. This is absolutely something that if you read. You read enough Christian books, you read enough books about lust, sexual purity, and things like that. And you talk to people. You talk to people in churches, and there are lots of folks that, I mean, I can think of their faces, I think of their names, and these are people that I love, that I respect in a lot of ways. And yet I've heard things along the lines of, like, it's. It's not about, you know, it's not an addiction. It's just a sin issue. It's just a heart issue. And, you know, coaching and guiding people like, no, you don't need a recovery group. You need to join a Bible study and dive into what the scripture says. And I want to be really careful what I'm saying. I'm certainly not saying don't dive into the scriptures. I'm certainly not saying don't dive into a mentoring relationship with people who have a strong relationship with Christ, who are following Christ, and attach yourself to that. Absolutely. I should be doing those things, but I need to dive into, again, those practical changes, too. It's not one or the other, and there tends to be, I mean, to put it broadly, there tends to be kind of a couple camps, I would say. And there tends to be. On the one hand, it's like, yeah, it's not about an addiction, it's about your heart. So get your heart right. Well, that sounds easy enough, maybe, or it sounds simple enough. If I've gotten to the point where I seemingly cannot go a day or a week or even a month without looking at porn, without flirting with a woman, like, the idea of getting my heart right, it's like this. It's this nebulous idea that I read in a book that I have no clue what that means. I've never. I seemingly have never done it. I've never seen it done in my own life. So it's not that I shouldn't get my heart right. I don't know how. My infrastructure is completely corrupted and broken. And of course, God can touch my life and heal me. God can do that. And I've talked to people. I've talked to people who not only claim that that's been done, but actually their life is evidence that that has happened. There are a lot of people that claim that that's been done. It's their second meeting. They're like, oh, yeah, I'm good now. It's like, well, wasn't it eight days ago that you were with a prostitute? Like, maybe give it some more time before you say that for sure. You're healed. I know there's a preachy tangent there, but it is both. And there's that old fable or whatever, the flood's coming. And the guy, he's up on the top of his roof and the water's rising and he's like, God's going to save me. God's going to save me. And then one by one, there's like, a police boat that comes by, hey, let's rescue you. No, no, no, God's going to save me. And then another boat comes back. No, no, God's going to save me. And then a helicopter. No, no, God's going to save me. He dies and God's like, what was the problem? I sent you a police boat. I sent you another boat. I sent you a helicopter. And we laugh, but, like, I do think that's kind of what ends up happening, and it's a very serious issue, is, you know, pastors, you know, like, poo-pooing, the idea of recovery, because. No, no, that's a secular idea. Addiction, that's a secular idea. It's just heart, it's just sin. And it's like, if there are resources that can dive in and help people get out of this bondage, we want to vet the resources. We want to make sure that it's. That they're legit. We want to make sure that they're not steering people off into who knows where. But if there are Christ-centered resources that can help people get out of this bondage, why would we not do that? I mean, in the same way, it's like if somebody came to a pastor and was like, hey, I cannot stop eating. Gluttony is my thing. I'm 400 pounds, and I don't know what to do. And there's, like, somebody in the church who's a nutrition expert, like, hey, let me help that guy. No, no, no. He just needs to read his bible more. He just needs to read in proverbs about gluttony. Like, we'd probably all laugh at that. Like, of course, we wouldn't do that. Right? But then why do we do that with addiction? And it happens all the time. And then, of course, the secular approach, I won't spend too much time, but it's, you know, again, it's basically just, we're going to dive into the science, we're going to dive into the practical, but, you know, reject God. Right. We can just do it on our own. We can. We can do it through human means. And that's where. I mean, again, I'll keep it short, but I. My point here, is because most of the podcasts I go on, most of the people I'm talking to are not Christian. And, like, I'm not here to. I'm not here to convince you, but I will make it clear, I think sobriety, traction, all of those things, you can gain some of those things, but it's so one-dimensional. It's not transformative healing without Christ. Without a relationship with Christ.

00:25:02 - Johnny Sanders
Absolutely. And, you know, to kind of bounce on that, too, something that we talk about sometimes in my church, that there's a little bit off of it, but talking about being an overly emotional sermon or something like that, where it's just pure emotion. We're not looking at any of the texts. It's just about feeling good. Well, most Bible-believing churches would accurately say, yeah, that's not really true worship that we need to be, you know, treat the text more importantly and read scripture and let that inform our worship. That's great. But there's also this other side of, well, when you're. You're preaching the word, and if it's all completely monotone, and you don't have any passion for it. Well, that's not good either. Like, you should have emotion like God saved you. That's a. That's a big deal. There should be emotion involved there. And part of why I use that example is that somebody digs into the word, now they're going into the Bible study or whatever. You use proverbs. That's a wonderful example. There are tangible things all throughout Proverbs that it's not just about reading scripture. And, oh, I'm good. Like, no, like, how are you applying it? And if I can apply that in a. I love that you said to vet the group because there are. Yeah, there are definitely psychological groups and recovery groups that will put in. Turn you away from God and you should vet that. Yes. But if it is pushing you towards Christ and it has practical good means that are within scriptural bounds, said that that's some of God's grace out there that has given us some of that wisdom. So why not use it?

00:26:49 - Logan Hufford
Yeah.

00:26:49 - Johnny Sanders
Yeah. Don't. Don't be afraid to jump into those resources that are actually helpful and grounded in truth, because ultimately, God created truth, whether it's in the church or if it's in the science textbook, as long as it's truth, like, that is ultimately under God's control.

00:27:06 - Logan Hufford
I love what you said just at the end there because I make this statement all the time that when it comes to ignoring science, ignoring that aspect, it's like, well, we don't need to get super in-depth of how the science works. And dopamine hits, because, again, it's all about the heart. It's all about sin. It's like God created our bodies. God created true science. Not necessarily the science that I'm going to learn about in a TED talk, but true science. God created the universe. He's behind all that. So why would I not want to understand how my body works? Why would I not want to understand how I can literally, not figuratively renew and rewire my brain? Right? Why would I not want to understand dopamine? Why would I not want to understand how these things work? Because they are. It's not an analogy. When I say something like, you know that the pathways of my brain, you know, had become corrupted and I needed to rewire my brain and create new neural pathways. These are real things that, I mean, we only in the last couple few decades have begun to understand as people and especially as a church. We're definitely behind the times. And there's so much hope in that. It's not about. That's a win for science, like. No, that's a win for anyone who is struggling in bondage because of it. Absolutely, there's practical, tangible change, but that's not the finish line. It doesn't stop there. In my case, in a lot of cases, it allows me to remove these shackles so that I can actually serve Christ, so that I can actually worship Christ uninhibited, without this feeling of like I'm dragging a corpse behind me. And that's how I went through life. And I'll just say one more time, of course, at any moment, God can and sometimes does heal in one moment. Right. He can do that. But again, we go through scripture and we see how often does God not do that. How often does he use people? And he has people go through tough journeys for a long period of time. Right. That is generally how people in the scriptures learn lessons. That's generally how they grow. There are the occasions when God touches and heals. There are occasions where in a moment, they are a completely different person. But generally speaking, more often than not in scripture, people go through long, tough journeys and then come out of that journey a different person after, you know, many years in a lot of cases.

00:29:53 - Johnny Sanders
Absolutely. Yeah. And it goes back into who is in control here. And we know through scripture that God can use anything. He can use a tragedy for. For his own glory, for good. And we may not see that in the moment. We may not ever see it on earth, but to still have faith there, and that's something that is really hard to grasp. I don't think we can fully grasp it without understanding the depths of God. God's grace and love, of how he can take a. And your personal situation, for instance, really deprived, terrible things. And who knows how many people have been impacted just by your story alone. Who knows? Somebody that's listening to this right now. Maybe they go and get help right now because of the story, because of, your depravity. He used it for good. And that. That is a wonderful thing. That's why the gospel is good news. And we need to have faith in that, even if we don't understand the struggle we're in right now. Maybe you're not listening to this and you're not into porn or any sexual issue. Maybe not. But honestly, that the odds are somebody listening to this probably is and isn't telling anybody.

00:31:13 - Logan Hufford
But regardless, you're dealing with any sin issue that has you trapped, right? That has you feeling like, I can't get out of this or I do this too much. I've got this issue, and I just can't seem to let it. It always has a hold of me. You know, it could be any sin issue, right?

00:31:30 - Johnny Sanders
Absolutely. And to have that faith, and that's something. When you were in that depth, maybe that's you right now, listening. You're in that depth. To have that faith, that God is bigger than that. He may choose to take you out of it. Snap of the finger right now, maybe. But like Logan said, probably not, right, but I guess maybe that's. That's a good kind of last question to end on here. Somebody that's a. That depth, not just to see the. The end result. Do you have any recommended, maybe, like, prayers or Bible verses, something that somebody in that depth that they don't even feel it right now, where maybe they can turn when they're feeling in that depth of bondage?

00:32:19 - Logan Hufford
Yeah. This. This is the part where I oftentimes struggle because I tend to be a contrarian by nature. And I also. I know my journey, I know recovery, and I know how often the best resources in the world don't necessarily mean anything unless I'm ready to use them. Right, sure. But that doesn't mean that there's not huge value in having resources. So I'll get over myself and I'll share some resources. In terms of scripture, I mean, I'm gonna cheat. There's not a specific verse that is like, oh, that's my go-to verse. I will just say the Psalms. I mean, the psalms were by and large, I mean, obviously, they're not all created equal, but most of them, you know, that. You follow that thread of, I'm going to. I'm starting off as the psalmist. I'm starting off broken, and desperate. You know, why, God? Why? Right? It's just like, what on earth is going on? Why is this happening to me? Or, you know, in my case, it wasn't like, why is this happening to me? It was, why did you put me here, God? Like, I was never angry at God. I just. I was. I didn't understand. Like, God, why would you create me? You knew I was just gonna hurt my wife and hurt my kids and hurt everyone in my path. Like, why would you put me here? So, I mean, going. But especially as once I was in recovery and I was trying. I was actually doing some things to be different, but, you know, imperfectly. So the psalms have been so huge over the last eight-plus years where I can recognize, yeah, I'm struggling. I've got those dark times. I've got those times where I'm feeling like a fraud. I'm feeling like I'm the same old Logan. But I have a choice. I can go back to healthy living or I can continue. But at every single step of the way, there's a fork in the road. And quick segue. But I mean, quick aside, I mean, that is just a little nugget that I just want to emphasize because, I mean, I'll say, like, this is. This tends to be addict thinking, but it really is just unhealthy thinking is like, I made a bad choice. Now I'm on this bad pathway, and there's some truth to that. But what doesn't get said is it's not just a pathway. It's a series of forks in the road. Every single choice is a new fork. And every single fork has one of its pathways that will eventually lead back to healthy living. Now, the further I get into sin, the further I get into destructive living. It might be a heck of a pathway. I mean, it wasn't until almost two years into my recovery program that I started to even entertain the idea that maybe I don't have to be an addict forever. Maybe I don't have to look at porn again. It was almost two years, Johnny. But God did bring me to that point. I'm so thankful for it. And of course, it's gone far beyond that. But, you know, that lie that Satan wants me to believe is like, I made a bad choice. I'm on a bad path. I'm just going to continue on this mudslide. It's like no natural consequences are real, and they're very, well, maybe I may lose my wife. I may go to prison, right? Like, these things may happen, but healing is always available at every single fork in the road. And every single step is a new fork. There's always one of those turns in. That fork in the road can lead to healing. So I can always choose that. That's not what you asked me, and I apologize, but no. So psalms. Dive into the psalms and then just in general, because, you know, I don't, you know, somebody's listening Kansas. Somebody's listening in Canada. Somebody's listening in Florida. I don't know what resources are available for you, right? I don't know what groups are available. I will tell you this. There are not nearly enough resources for this as there should be because of how big of a problem it is. But there are resources. I mean, again, I live in Alaska, and even here there are sexual addiction groups. There are sexual addiction therapists. There are sexual betrayal trauma-trained therapists specifically for women who are dealing with that. So there are resources everywhere. And if nothing else, as much as I love in-person, growing in-person, healing, and this technology we're using right now, if nothing else, there are so many resources available online. When seeking out a resource, I just want to encourage folks, to find people that have the type of healing that I want, because that applies. If I'm looking for a recovery group, if I'm looking for a therapist if I'm just wanting to partner up with some people from my church body, I join a Bible study, or I'm starting to meet with my pastors or whatever that looks like, but just seek out those opportunities. If I seek out people who have the type of healing that I want, I promise you they will announce themselves to you. Like, that will just happen. I will find those opportunities. And this is a key thing, because, like, if I'm going to a recovery group, it's one thing for me to go to a group and see other people that share my struggle. Now that does something. What that does is, is it starts to take away the power of shame, because I recognize now that it's not just me, and that's huge. But the absence of shame doesn't necessarily bring hope, because what that might look like is like, okay, I'm not the only one here. I'm not the only one trapped in this cave, but I still don't know if there's a way out of here. We're just all trapped together. So maybe there's a little camaraderie, maybe there's not as much shame, but we're still screwed. But when I can find people that have the type of healing that I want, that have, they haven't lived my exact story, but they lived some version of it, and they've experienced healing. They've experienced life outside of the cave. Now, not only does the shame go away, but there's hope because now I know that there is actually life outside of this cave for me, and that's what God did for me. Starting in March of 2016, that's what God continued to do over the coming months, in the coming years, is flood my life with people who have. They're not perfect, but they've been living life outside of the cave. This is a beautiful thing, and that was a really long way of saying that. But, you know, seek out those people who have that healing. And just lastly, two very specific, tangible resources. I would recommend, you know, first and foremost, feel free to connect with me. I would love for people to, you know, give me a follow on Instagram. No longer in bondage. I put out a lot of content specifically around this. It's not all sexual addiction recovery. Some of it would apply to addiction in general or just destructive tendencies in general. But of course, I'm always going to be open about here's my past, here's where I'm coming from. But also I touched a little bit on the sexual betrayal side, but it's just being raw. Being real about life is not easy, and I'm going to have issues. I'm going to have things that are going to entrap me unless I'm intentional, to work on them. And if people want to just sit down and learn more about the Conquer series, I have no affiliation with it, but I've absorbed it many, many times. It's an incredible resource. Ted Roberts, who, I believe founded Pure Desire Ministries, it's an incredible resource. So check that out as well. But check me out on Instagram or send me a message if you have any questions.

00:40:05 - Johnny Sanders
Fantastic. And I think those are some wonderful resources, both practical there. And I'll put Logan's Instagram and you say the Conqueror series, was that right?

00:40:17 - Logan Hufford
It's the Conquer series, so conquer the Conqueror series.

00:40:24 - Johnny Sanders
Okay, great. I'll include both of those in the description below so you guys can check that out. But I also love that. The mental mindset of that fork in the road. That is a wonderful analogy because, yeah, we get that snowball mentality that I can't ever get out. No, there's a choice. It's not. We're not going to get it all done. You might be deep, but can we take that step and then the psalms? Huge fan of that. Most are fairly short, which I think is kind of helpful to kind of go to. Don't go to Psalm 119. That one's gonna take you a while. If you want to short chunks, yes, take, take chunks there. But goodness, if you are in a rough spot, I about guarantee you there's a Psalm that's in a tougher spot than you. There is some deep despair in there. So that is a wonderful thing to go to. I'm actually a fan of even praying through the psalms. There's so much wonderful material in there. So, yeah, definitely turn to those. And Logan, thanks again for being on. I know we just scratched the surface of your story and some of the resources you have, but I really appreciate you being on today.

00:41:41 - Logan Hufford
I so appreciate the opportunity. Thank you, Johnny.

00:41:44 - Johnny Sanders
You bet. And thank you to everybody who tuned in today, and we'll catch you on the next episode.