Introduction:
Hello, fellow podcasters. Welcome to this podcast where we discuss various topics around
neurodiversity and Autism Spectrum disorder, with self advocates, program directors, and
occupational therapists, families, and clinicians. I hope you enjoy what we have in store for you
today
Jessica
My name is Jessica Pigeau. Jessia (french). I'm originally from Alberta but I live in Vancouver,
British Columbia now. I'm 30 years old. I am a stand up comedian. And I also spent some time
in academia. I also have autism. That's my relevant credential here. I've traveled the world
alright and I have autism. That's the vital question at hand.
Clara
Thank you. Jessica, what is your favorite TV show or movie?
This is a very morbid answer. My favorite television show was the 2013 series of Hannibal,
which is an adaptation of both Hannibal, Silence of the Lambs and the Red Dragon. I'm a big
fan of Nicholson's acting ability and cannibalism. (Laughs) Probably shouldn't put it like that. Big
fan of Hannibal.
I've never watched it before. I’ll note it.
It's a very sort of baroque, gothic take on the police procedural genre. I liked it a lot. And my
roommate found it sickening. I've always found that autistic people are more likely to have a
certain resistance to gore and could also be hypersensitive to it. But part of it is just the
fictional-not-registering-as-viscerally when it comes to pretend McCobb violence. It also is just
very interesting philosophically. In particular, the main character is neurodivergent; he's not
autistic, they sort of avoid the question of a particular diagnosis. But he specifically has a hyper
empathy that causes him to withdraw from people in ways that I found very thematically??
similar to what Autistics go through, with the world being chaotic and overwhelming and feeling
the need to retreat due to not only the lack of interest but excessive stimulus.
Right. I love that explanation. Thank you.
Also there's murder.
Next question: is there one thing that you want people to know about you?
One thing that I want people to know about me? I don't know what I want people to know about
me. Mostly what I try to communicate people with how I act, and how I dress, how I am in
general is that I am harmless and friendly. You know, I've never wanted people to feel
intimidated by me or scared of me and I know that I can be intimidating for a variety of reasons,
mostly starting with my vocabulary and work gorgeing on down? I think the thing that I most

want people to know about me as an adult is that I am and I've always been incredibly open
minded and heterodox and I think people have a tendency of just assuming my opinions before I
state them. Based on how I look and the kinds of words I use. And I just need that more people
in general should be aware that no person is entirely one way or another and that most people
who are thinking do not have a completely homogeneous ideology. If you agree completely with
one school of thought, it's probably because you're not thinking.
I resonate with that. Yeah, but that's very true. You're so well spoken I want to write it down and
save it in my quotes book.
I am a severe victim of autistic over-articulation. I always feel like I'm never being specific
enough so that I just explain everything to death.
Honestly, that's a really good way of getting what you want to get across. Make sure people
know what your intentions are. So next question, do you have a preferred term? Like self
advocate, an individual with autism? Autistic individual?

This is always a tricky one for me, because I have a language background. And I would say that I
think we overly focus on exact terms when it comes to what is an appropriate way to dress
somebody. You know, the entire ‘autistic person versus person with autism debate’ I think has
many passionate advocates and has its own value as a conversation, with many people who
prefer ‘autistic person and self advocate’ being people who want to normalize their autism. They
want to be an autistic person the way that I'm a brunette or I’m Catholic. They don't want a kind
of distancing language that can result in us trying to humanize certain people and distance
them from the stigmatized condition they have. And on the other side, you have caretakers
parents who, compared to the average self advocate, are taking care of somebody who's far, far
less capable of taking care of themselves. And for them, the importance of emphasizing the
humanity of the person they are looking after is paramount. But what I would generally say is, we
focus too much on language, when, generally speaking, language does not affect views. You
cannot teach someone to expect autistic people by being careful about language. You can only
sort of freeze them out of the conversation. So what I would say is, rather than having any
particular language that I like, I accept anything I'm called coming from a place of respect.
Wow, that's a great answer. Thank you for that. Okay, those are all the opening questions. I think
we're going to jump into the first timestamp of Good Doctor.

Okay, so just a couple questions. Can you recall a particular time where communication was a
barrier that you had to overcome?

Yes, always. Communication has always been a barrier that I had to overcome. It's not obvious
from the way I talk right now, but I have pretty severe speech impediments. I have since
childhood. I've learned to talk around them. I naturally have what is known as a frontal lisp. That
happens because the tongue is positioned in the wrong place when it nearly touches the teeth.
So I had a very pronounced lisp when I was a child. I still have it when I am tired or stressed right
now. I also have a bit of a lateral lisp, when the air comes over the side of the tongue, and that
tends to come out whenever I'm distracted or explaining something. I also have what is known
as temporary mutism, which is a condition mostly found in children with anxiety. I still suffer it
as an adult, and basically what it is, is that when I am emotionally loaded, I lose the ability to talk
sometimes for several hours. To the point where in my teens, I actually knew quite a bit of sign
language because it was an easier way to communicate with another. And if you could
understand basic things such as ‘I’m hungry’ or ‘I’m tired’ or ‘I need to be alone right now’, I
could communicate that through sign language.
I have always struggled to express myself, especially when it was most important to, because I
find these kinds of situations very overwhelming. I often shut down in basic everyday situations.
When it happens while I am at the store and someone talks to me suddenly, or when trying to
answer a waitress under pressure. And I've had a stack of restaurants flip out at me and get
angry with me, because it wasn't able to talk. And there's a very basic assumption that we have
both that the way that someone is capable of [to be] consistent over time, like we expect if
somebody is able to hold an intelligent conversation on Monday, they should be able to hold an
intelligent conversation on Tuesday. So failures of that kind where once someone is able to talk
then simply stop talking, we tend to see that as obstinance and refusal rather than a sudden
loss of ability. But likewise, we have this conflation of intelligence with the ability to express. We
see speech and fluency of speech as intelligence in many ways. We often portray stupid
characters on television as ones that are inarticulate, or very much have speech impediments.
But the reality is that someone can be much smarter than their ability to portray themselves.
I'm sorry that those incidents happened, where people flipped out at you.
I mean, I also had tons of people mistake me for deaf and then were just very nice about it. I had
some very, very more nice people more than not who were like “Well, [she] is clearly not capable
of talking. I'm going to mouth everything” and I’m just like “I’m going to need you to say that out
loud for reasons.” They were very kind though.
So what do you think should be done to reduce communication barriers between neurotypical
individuals and those with ASD?

I mean, it kind of reminds me of the difference between a dialect and a language. It's partially a
matter of linguistics, but it's also to a heavy degree of politics. So there are languages that are
considered separate languages that are still basically mutually intelligible, meaning someone
who speaks one understands the other. So there are plenty of those that are considered
separate languages. So the example I would point to is Danish, Norwegian and Swedish. All of
which you know if you’re a swedish person you can understand Norwegian and Danish and vice
versa. But those are separate languages because we associate them with separate countries.
Then there are languages like Mandarin, Chinese and Cantonese Chinese, which are way more
different than any Scandinavian and any of these three Scandinavian languages, but are still
considered to be the same language.
---
Right.
And because of political reasons, and when you sort of look at how neurotypicals think, and how
Autistics think and how they communicate, part of the issue is usually when there is a uneven
mutual intelligibility, such as what happens with Spanish or Portuguese. So Spanish and
Portuguese are very similar, not completely the same language, but they are very similar. [16:13]
They are in between the Scandinavian languages and Chinese languages in terms of who
understands who. But Portuguese people understand Spanish way better than Spanish people
understand Portuguese. This is for a simple reason. They have more exposure to it. And
something very similar happens with Canada US, like Canadians understand American politics
much better than Americans understand Canadian politics. And so part of the issue when we're
talking about what can people do to understand autistic people. Part of it's just being more
familiar, part of it is not only interacting more with Autism as a concept, but also increasing the
ability to recognize it, and people you already know that you can sort of have it as a paradigm,
where you recognize it in the future and respond accordingly. So it's partially just autistics have
far more experience understanding neurotypical people than neurotypical people do
understanding Autistics. Autistics as much as we talk about not having quite the same capacity,
or quickly learning social skills that people do, they nonetheless understand each other quite
well. And that's because of a fundamental similarity of mine, but also a certain familiarity of
mine. So, you know, it's not possible for a neurotypical person to just be more autistic. That's not
useful advice to that. But increased familiarity, such as you know, watching more television
shows that have explicitly autistic characters can really help neurotypical people pinpoint how
autistic people communicate, and what strategies work best for that kind of inter neurological
communication.
Yeah, I’m just saying that's like, that's really great advice on that individuals with ASD definitely
have more exposure and know how to deal with neurotypical individuals, whereas the other way
around, definitely lacks familiarity. So, yeah, thank you for that. That's such a great answer. I
think that's everything for that scene. The next scene is episode seven of season one.

So how do you think the general public perceives individuals with autism? And do you think it's
changed over the years for better or worse?
I think there's a gap between how people perceive...I think there's on a basic level neurotypical
people perceive autism, more than they once did. Partially due to increases in awareness of it,
but also due to the expanded definition that came in 1994. My joke tends to be that I wasn't
autistic until I was four the meaning being that that was when the expansion of term came when
I started realizing that there wasn't actually this discrete singular condition analogous down
syndrome that we were calling autism, but rather that it was a spectrum of traits that were highly
variable among individuals. I think that can be shown by a whole diagnostic standard, where we
basically had like, three different catch all terms and also a separate catch all catch all,
BDDNOS Pervasive development disorder not otherwise specified. We have a broad spectrum
of like we had several different broad spectrums, and also this atypical autism diagnosis. Which
revealed that we really did not know enough about autism to try to make refining it more
particularly, more specifically. So I think that there has been a huge shift in how people perceive
autism. I will say that it's largely positive. But there's still very much a gap between what people
recognize as Autism, and what people like have been socially trained to respect, to take care of,
to be kind to and more a-typical/subtle and the most severe expressions of Autism. What I
mean, in the first case, one of the very, very subtle traits of being autistic is often the kinds of
social behavior that we very much make fun of that we socially derived can be, in fact, autistic,
it can be very autistic. And you can see this in all attitudes towards a nerd culture. And we used
to see the nerdy as is incredibly awkward, incredibly, socially inept thing. So early nerd culture is
predominantly autistic and ADHD in terms of its social norms, where extremely odd extremely
pedantic behavior was not only seen as normal but valued within these these niche
communities. As ‘nerdity’ has been mainstreamed, more neurotypical people have latched on to
it and taking it up, it has both become some space for normalizing certain autistic behaviors, but
also pushing into what was once a pseudo safe space for autistic people and other neurotypical
social expressions. So I think that there's often a case where, when somebody is socially
inept but not explicitly labeled, they can end up still getting bullied for these behaviors,
because there is a gap between we've normalized the idea that you should be respectful
towards obviously disabled people, but we still have not translated that completely into
an understanding that you should normalize these behaviors and these behaviors should
be acceptable, or the very least not openly mocked, no matter who has them or why, because
you will not know it because you will not necessarily be able to spot a autistic person when you
see one, but also because it's okay for people who aren't autistic, you have weird
awkward obsessions, that's also fine. You shouldn't need an explicit label to treat someone
like a human being. And then there's this other end of things where we sort of develop this part
of the problem like it's such a broad spectrum that you have people with vastly different
interests. But we have this I mean, I've heard it sort of referred to as the ‘Super crip stereotype’
within disabled circles, which you know, can sound a bit disrespectful but that's, that's a term
that we use amongst ourselves when we're being blunted, blind to social norms. And so sort of
refers to like this like Sherlock Holmes, or the Good Doctor, where disability is seen as sort of
this mild superpower, where this person is able to overcome a lot of deficits through this, like
hyper skilled almost savant aspect of our lives. And I think that these are very real narratives,

where there are a lot of disabled people who and especially neurotypical people who, by the
very nature of their divergent neurology are capable of making unique contributions to various
fields, because they think differently from the people around them, they take different steps at
problem solving, and they can end up being uniquely valuable. But that's also not the vast
majority of us. And when we overly rely on this idea of “ disabled people are capable of doing
even more than non disabled people” you can end up accidentally reinforcing a narrative that it
is only through this additional value to society that we are justified in taking up space. And the
reality is that some people with autism can never contribute more to society than they take. This
would be a reality for some disabled people. And we need to have a robust defense of the right
to be within society that does not rely on them paying us back in the end
I completely agree. Yeah. Thank you. Next scene is at nine minutes and 40 seconds till 10
minutes and 40 seconds in the same episode.
So have you ever experienced something similar or any similar challenges with patient care?
Well, I don't know if I've ever been in a situation where I couldn't calm down to the point where
medical intervention became difficult. That being said, I did have asthma as a very young child.
And apparently when I was two years old, they stuck me in a tube in order to examine my lungs.
Apparently I screamed the entire time. That's the expected from a very young child. It was hard
on my mother. That was not Autism-specific, I don't think
Right
But you run into a lot of these issues, interacting with medical care. I never had problems with
doctor doctors. I never had an issue with those kinds of things. Like GP’s etc, because my
mother when I was very young, and I didn't have much control over to express myself, my
mother was always in charge and my mother, like she's not the term people have been using
Karen. She is not your classical Karen. But you know, she still is a white, middle aged white
woman and you still get a, I believe, a classic bonus in relentless haranguing, and so she could
just turn it on, the drop of a hat. She was very good at pushing past people who thought I didn't
need medical attention or people who were resistant to actually inspecting me and seeing what
was wrong. When I was older, I started to run into issues with psychiatrists. Specifically, I had
difficulty convincing them that I genuinely needed a diagnosis, not neccessarily of autism but of
other things. It was difficult to get them to take you seriously. And part of that is when you're
patient and you already have preconceptions of what you have and etc, etc, even if they're
coming from what previous doctors have told you. When people are experts in your field, they
can be a little territorial, arrogant, I don't know. But there can be people who are used to
being the expert people, who are used to being the one in charge, they can be a little
condescending, especially to people who have previous mental health diagnosis. And
that's usually not intentional. It's usually not a conscious desire to minimize your
problems. But it can be an issue where the average doctor by definition is somebody who has
not had the maximum amount of problems in life. So they can lack the background to be
sympathetic and empathetic to somebody with severe mental health issues. Or they can by bias
assume that you are irrational.

So I once had a psychiatrist who was...
Normally there's a problem where when people receive therapy, they can become overly
dependent on therapy, because they are so relieved after and so happy after coming out of a of
a therapists office. There's this good catharsis that happens. It is normal to feel better when
coming out of a therapist's office than worse. I had a psychiatrist who made me cry three times.
Oh, my goodness
And psychiatrists are not therapists. They are medical doctors with two years of psychiatric
rotation. If you want to Therapist you go to a psychologist and will usually have a Mastesr in
Psychology which is, you know, six to seven years of mental health training. And I had gone to
the facility that had recommended me to her and I was just like, I need a referral, like right now.
Every time I mentioned something I was doing. I mentioned I working as a translator, I was
mentioning, you know, enjoying stand up comedy as a hobby, which is something I get paid for.
That's something I now do professionally. And she would just dump them on those kinds of
things. Like they were stupid or irrational and that they weren't worthy of my time maybe that I
wasn't good enough with no experience that my ability to tell jokes, no, no relevant experience
on my ability as a translator. She would just be utterly dismissive, and she would draw me
specifically into conversations about those topics which I would not want to talk about
Now I want to talk about I wanted to query ADHD I wanted to know whether or not I should be
on??
And she spent a large portion of our time together just ripping into my personal passions, which
is very hard as an autistic person, they're incredibly important to me. And after I asked for a
referral, they're like, “Oh, well, it's gonna take you four months to get another person.” Don’t care.
I want a referral. You should not feel destroyed after an appointment with a medical
professional. It's one thing if they're like, you have cancer like okay, you'll you can feel devastated
by that version. Just be like hi on your occupational therapist, your dreams are [censor]
And afterwards, she called me personally and tried to harangue me and bully me into coming
back to her sessions. So you can end up in situations as an autistic person, where you get
bullied into medical treatment you do not want from people who feel like you will just give in
because of your psychological frailties. Yeah, like I am somebody who is easy to bully I am
somebody who is a bit of a doormat. It is not hard to get me to do something that I don't want to
do. I mean up to a point. I am a very good comedian. I got paid money a couple of times. Other
times, other times about (spanic appita?) Excellent greek food.
I know you can see me while you were talking about that psychiatrist, but the whole time I was
just shaking my head and I was like, this is so ridiculous. I'm sorry that you had to experience
that. And I think there's lots of good doctors out there.
There’s a vast majority of them

Yeah, yeah, totally. Definitely.
It's just a very vulnerable position to be in, it’s a position of power for a reason.
Totally. Yeah. Thank you. For sharing that story. The next scene it is still saying episode so
about 19 minutes and 35 second
So what does a connection to the ASD community mean to you?
What do I feel about my relationship with other autistic people?
Yeah, like having that connection to that community help you? Are you involved in the
community?
Yes and no. Like it did help me a lot when I was younger. And I think the internet in a lot of ways
has allowed what is a naturally very geographically diasporic and spread out unity actually have
communications actually have culture within them. I wouldn't say however, that I tend to
socialize more so with Autistics than I do other people, or that I tend to specifically seek out
autistic spaces. What I found rather is that I tend to find Autistics everywhere I go. So a lot
of my best friends in university had Autism, a lot of my best friends in comedy now have autism.
And I sometimes wonder, if it's that we're attracted to the same things that we we go to the
same places like the debate societies and comedy clubs, or if it's that there's a certain number
of autistic people everywhere, and we have a tendency to find each other out of a certain
mutual understanding. My best friend calls it 'spectuition’, the autistic version of gaydar. So I
would say that I read a lot of autistic literature, I read a lot of autistic in News Reports,
Academica, etc. That my relationships, specifically groups for people with autism is somewhat
narrow. Okay, it's obviously, it's one of those things I also found with the queer community where
gay is a personality type. And it's not a common interest. So, if you want to make queer friends,
you need to find queer friends who actually have the same interests as you. Yes, I would say
that one of the reasons I don't predominantly socialize with the Autistic community, per se, and
one of the reasons I find myself in non autistic spaces alongside other Autistics, is because
those are autistic people who have an interest compatible mind. And we live now more so in an
age where one can be openly autistic, or one can be unabashedly autistic. And even if you don't
suppose to call yourself that, you can behave in an autistic manner in public and still be socially
accepted and embraced. So I have found it. Not necessarily that I engage a lot with the Autistic
community, but that the Autistic community is more visible now than it was when I was a child.
And we're experiencing a reversal of that thing that always happens in every elementary school,
where there's tons of other disabled kids in your grade, kindergarten, grade one, but one by
one, they start slowly disappear from our social lives as they get shuttled off into more
specialized programming for entirely understandable reasons, usually. But that nonetheless
means that our social space as teenagers becomes gradually pruned of disabled influences.
Meaning and I think that's genuinely one of the reasons why a lot of adults have trouble
socializing with obviously disabled people, is because we stop being socialized in our
interactions with specially moderate and severely disabled people at a very young age. That
leaves us with only these very rudimentary tools for engagement. So I would likewise point

that there is this broader community of neuro-atypical people that I think have made
common-cause with people with autism, that I've likewise found myself socializing with
more and more. I have tons of friends with ADHD, and one of my closest friends actually has
borderline personality disorder. And I think that there are lots of little ways that every one of us
sees these people in everyday life, and they can be very enriching once we learn to open up
engage. I have no idea if I've answered the question. That being said, as a reflection of the
particular clip, I do kind of get this sort of feeling of like, watching another autistic person and
feeling very uncomfortable. That's something I experienced. And I would say that it's comes
from this deep place of empathy to be honest. Where I will feel such strong secondhand
embarrassment, watching somebody do something that I would absolutely do. Versus like, oh,
there's like others, and there's like an anger there. But it's not about them. It's about you. That
you are you are too similar to me to be doing that.
I think your answer to the question totally makes sense, not in specific to the ASD community,
but you have your own interests, and there's a big population of people with ASD and you find
them there, instead of just trying to dive into the ASD community. So the last scene of Good
Doctor is 27:35
What do you think about the statement: “He has autism, same as her son, same limitation.”
I think that's a common assumption. I think that the average person has a pretty basic
mental model of what illnesses is, and that illnesses, regardless of severity, are
analogous. Like, there is the old saying, you know, if you've met one person with autism, you've
met one person with autism, and that is insanely true. The reality is, when we're talking about
autism, we are undoubtedly, even if we cannot make distinctions, talking about a wide range of
fundamentally different conditions on some level, that all have very similar outcomes. And I think
this is the logical we apply to a lot of different conditions. This is the logic we apply to, like
everything from autism to ADHD to like bone spurs. We tend to group things like ADHD like
nearsightedness, like bone spurs into soft disabilities, and non severe disability. And we tend to
group like autism in sort of a moderate range, and we tend to generalize, especially from what
we have previously seen. And the average person does not know that many Autistics, they do
not know that many people with ADHD. They definitely met a whole bunch, but having it's very
rare to have that many close personal relationships with somebody who you explicitly know they
have this condition. It’s going to be more common, but it's still very rare. And it is entirely
understandable for the average person to extrapolate from the one or two instances they know
of a particular condition. And to extrapolate that into their engagement with the condition
everywhere else in life. It makes sense when you only have so many examples of something to
prioritize your own anecdotal experience of what something looks like.
You know, I can say personally, like, I know many people with ADHD because it runs in my
family. There are people like my younger sister who are, you know, they force themselves to be
very organized. They have to be on medication, but it's not really a big deal if they don't take it
one day. And I also know people like my boyfriend, who, every once in a while I will show up at
his house. He will be in the middle of his study completely naked. We will hold an entire
conversation and then he'll look at me and he'll ask why am I naked? And it's the sort of
interaction that if you had that with a 90 year old person you would have assumed dementia,

where he will forget what we are talking about four times within the same conversation, if he is
not on his medication. So I think it's a very natural tendency, because the world is big and
complicated, and because there is too much for any one mind to fully understand. It is very
reasonable to try to understand the world in broad heuristics that take the weight of cognition off
of us. What's important is actually to give people multiple examples of this. So that and like this
word examples, we don’t have to get on like this, or that depiction of autism, the stereotypical,
not every autistic person is like that. Here's the thing, it's okay to have some stereotypical
elements in any one depiction of autism, because no one person is going to completely diverge
from every single stereotype about their group. That's absurd. You know, you need to just have
enough depictions, with enough variety within them in order to disabuse these this kind of
stereotyping, unmalicious stereotyping. Like I myself, have been on the receiving end of like
some fairly condescending behavior because of my autism diagnosis and from people who very
well know that I'm quite smart. It's just a natural tendency, given the simplicity of the human
mind, which is still incredibly impressive as a computer. In the complexity of reality, people
make assumptions, people have stereotypes. The question is whether or not we get nuance into
their media diet and into their interactions.
Yeah, totally. There's a follow up question, but I think you've pretty much covered it. Well, I'll just
repeat it in case you want to add something. Do you think that the experiences and challenges
faced by individuals with autism are similar or different? And what ways? Are they similar or
different? Do you have any examples?
Yes, they're similar and different. I would say that while a lot of Autistics experiences can be
analogous, where you come from really has a big effect. But people often mentioned that they're
like, oh, you know, I would describe you as very autistic, but at the same time, like very
functional. Which is to say, like, when people say that I have mild autism, they don't mean that
I'm not very obviously autistic, they just mean that, you know, like, I can go to the store by
myself and I can drive a car. Which is, I think what they're kind of getting at is that you can
be very, very distinctly autistic, and still have had the resources and support you needed
in order to be very functional. And one of the interesting things for me when you're looking at
older autistic people, is that it's very hard to separate from our definition of what autism is, the
symptoms of being just baseline autistic. It's very hard to separate those out from what are the
symptoms of being a traumatized autistic person. Because there are a lot of, especially older
autistic people who the nature of their condition led them to become victimized or led them to
become neglected, or led them to experience extreme stress early in life, or prevented them
from maturing or developing in very key ways. So when people look at someone like me, and
they say, like, oh, well, you're very functional. I'd say, well, yes, I had an extremely [censored]
family. I grew up in a situation of full throuted support, very loving, very caring. Even if I wasn't
diagnosed for a very long time, there was a certain understanding that I was different and I was
accommodated. So I would say the things that Autistic people go through are not different from
what neurotypicals go through in kind, they are different in degree. Neurotypical people
experience loneliness. Neurotypical people experience bullying, neurotypical people experience
social awkwardness, and experience obsession. The autistic condition is just a variation of the
human condition. And the problems with Autistic face are the problems that human beings face.

They are just to a degree that we have decided as a community to specifically point out and
triage resources towards. Like if society one day decides like we're no longer going to consider
people who are as disabled as Jessica to be disabled because it’s not a priority of our resources
anymore, that doesn't make me not autistic that just means that I have no I no longer fit in our
medical and legal definition of disability. I think there's just a lot of people who find a lot of
empathy with what Autistic people go through.
Right. Thank you honestly I'm So very Glad that this is all being recorded because Everything
you're saying is honestly resonating with me a lot and You are so eloquently spoken and I’m so
amazed, because I had a job interview you the other day and unlike I'm so frustrated because I
couldn’t express myself and you’re doing it so well and everything you're saying rings true to my
heart
I also had a job interview the other day Public Sector job interview well Investing of a pub except
your job interview is that you don't actually need to have social skills you just need We're going
to describe socialism And that's where I'm showing you
So it's perfect and hopefully you hear good news Perfect Sounds good okay well thank you