00:00:00 - Johnny Sanders
 Do you have a child that is gender confused? Are you the parent of somebody who is either identified as transgender using different pronouns or some other type of gender confused just propaganda being shoved down your kids' throats? Well, I created the biblically parenting gender-confused children support group for parents just like you. 00:00:34 - Johnny Sanders
 The support group is completely free. 00:00:36 - Johnny Sanders
 We meet monthly, and you are able to connect with other like-minded Christian parents who are struggling with how to parent children who are gender confused. They're getting all sorts of nonsense brought to them by the world, and I want to help connect parents who are going through similar struggles and be able 00:00:56 - Johnny Sanders
 To tackle this issue through a biblical worldview. If you are interested in joining this. 00:01:01 - Johnny Sanders
 Group or know somebody who might be interested in this group, head on over to faithfullyengaged.com, and there's more information about the support group there. I have a link down in the description below. 00:01:14 - Johnny Sanders
 Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of faithfully engaged. Those of you who have been watching the show for a while, or even watched it way back when it started as my counseling practice of the Truth and Grace Counseling podcast. You know that I'm a counselor, and I've had several counselors on the show before. Today's guest, Lisa Mustard, is another counselor that I'm really excited to share a little bit more of her story and just the unique things that she brings to the field of counseling. So, Lisa, it's great to have you on. Why don't you tell the audience a little bit more about yourself? 00:01:50 - Lisa Mustard
 Great. Well, thank you, Johnny, for having me. I'm honored and thrilled to be here. Just grateful to connect with you and get to know you. And we have a lot of similar things in common. Our values and our beliefs, I think, are in alignment. And so I'm always excited to connect with podcasters, especially therapists and their audiences. So thanks for having me. So, my name is Lisa Mustard, and no, I am not married to a colonel. Like everybody always asks that question. I am a licensed marriage and family therapist in South Carolina. And what else can I tell you? Gosh, I've done a lot of things over the years. I've been licensed for the past 15 years. I've worked in anywhere from a college counseling center at the University of South Carolina. That's where I cut my teeth and got my hours under me. Went from there to an addiction recovery center. From there, got into working with the military population, and that's primarily who I've worked with in the past. What am I going on, like 13 years? I guess. I've been working primarily with a military population. However, one of the things that I feel is something you would like to talk about on the show based on what we talked about prior to recording, is where I am today and kind of how I got here. And when I turned 40, I had a big old wake-up call and realized that I was just kind of going through the motions of life. My marriage was good, my kids were good, my jobs were good, but I felt like I wasn't really tapping into everything that all the skills and gifts that I feel like I had really worked on since I became a therapist. And I got really curious about that, and I just kind of leaned into that. And instead of, you know, going down probably maybe the path of sadness or fearfulness or, you know, just hopelessness, I got really curious about it and started to listen to, what does that mean? You know, what can I do with these thoughts and these feelings and where do I want to take it? Because I felt like at 40 as midlife, kind of hitting this, you know, very common, I think, for a lot of midlifers out there to kind of go through this phase. So I got really curious and decided a couple of years after 40 that I wanted to go into podcasting, mainly because I was at a regional conference, the Lowcountry Mental Health Conference in Charleston, South Carolina, which is a phenomenal conference in the middle of July. I'm in Charleston, and I'm thinking, I can't believe I got to sit here for the next 7 hours in Charleston inside, where I could be outside walking around, I could be down at the battery, I could be on a, you know, the harbor cruise. Like, I could be doing so many different things, and I'm stuck inside for 7 hours for the next two and a half days. And I thought, wouldn't it be cool if I could be doing those things and have all these speakers in my earbuds and I could be learning on the go? And that's when I thought, aha, I think I'm onto something here. And I just, like, just got curious about how does one do that? How does somebody become credentialed as a continuing education provider, and how do you turn the content into audio courses? And I just started, I mean, honestly, I just kind of, like, flew by the seat of my pants trying to figure it all out. And I just here I am a couple of years later, and I have a continuing education company under my belt. It's called mustard consulting, and I have about 22 pod courses that are available. I also work with other therapists who have courses that they want to get out there, and I work with them as their administrators. So there are other courses on my site. And as I started to do all this, I started to get people reaching out to me saying, how do I do this? How do I do what you're doing? And so then I started like, okay, well, there's a lot of. There are so many moving parts, as, you know, like, you're going through or you've been through that process. And so I started to work with people a little bit, one-on-one, kind of helping them figure out what content they wanted to create. Do they want to do training for laypersons? Do they want to do training for therapists? Needless to say, it's kind of brought me, like, full circle back to all of these things. When I was in burnout and I was going through that midlife, you know, blah, all of these things that I've been through, I'm a better therapist, I am a better mom, I'm a better wife, a better human, you know, just kind of going through that, kind of coming out on the other side, because the obstacle is the way. I'm a big believer in that. So here I am, and it's great. It's fun. Like, I have a zest for therapy again. I have excitement about connecting with new people, and that's probably a really long-winded way of saying what I do today. I'm also. One more thing I am doing right now is I'm finishing up a hypnotherapy certification. So I'm really excited about being able to offer that in the future. Pretty soon, probably by the end of the summer, I'll be fully certified in that. 00:06:36 - Johnny Sanders 
That's fantastic. And there are several things I want to point out here. For the audience now said, most of you that are. Those who are listening are not counselors, and that's totally fine. I do have a bias for some of the guests that I bring on. They're gonna be more likely to be a counselor than a plumber just because I'm a counselor. So I. some of that's just for my own benefit. But you guys can benefit, too. Look, if you're not 40 already, you're gonna be, or you already have been. And that is common. Like Lisa was saying, a midlife crisis is. That term is out there for a reason. Um, you've probably been in your career for a while. You may be getting burnt out. Counseling is really susceptible to that. We get a lot of just junk thrown our way but counselors aren't the only profession that runs into burnout. Um, you may, you may be that plumber and you're tired of doing it or working in an office. Like, that's very common. But what I liked about what Lisa said there is she could have done. The road that I think a lot of us take is just to complain and stay there. Um, and that doesn't do us a whole lot of good to just complain and stay there. We grow bitter and things just get off. But she did something, and it's what I wanted to follow up with you on. Lisa, as you're, you had this kind of eureka moment, like, oh, like, I could listen to this on the go. You said you just did it. What did, what did that look like? Was that, like, I just figured it all out in a week? Was it? I made a lot of mistakes along the way and refined it. Like, what was that process like? 00:08:17 - Lisa Mustard
 Yeah, that's such a great question. Yeah, it, so I just decided to do it. And I love a new challenge. And so figuring out podcasting to me was, like this really cool challenge. And I listened to a lot of podcasts, to begin with, so it was natural. Oh, I'm going to start a podcast now. I'm going to do this. And I knew enough to not blow things up. And I'll tell you, the best thing I did was I took a free podcasting course, and I'll share it with anybody. It's by John Lee Dumas. You probably know who he is, right? Entrepreneur on Fire. He has a free podcasting course that you can just go on his website, and there's a big button that says free podcasting course. And you can watch it, you can listen to it, you can read it. He has it in a much different ways that you can learn from him. And I just did what he said. What's your niche, or target audience? What's your content? What do you, you know, what's, what impact do you want to make? And I just started, I mean, I think the hardest part was hitting record and then just going. And if you go back and listen to my first, like, probably ten to twelve episodes, maybe even the first 50, I don't know, my kids make fun of me. They're like, well, you sound like a robot. But, you know, it was, it was just, I just did it. I guess I just, that's part of it. I think you just have to do it and anything. For me, it was a challenge. I like a challenge. I knew I wanted to use my creative side of myself. One of my values is creatively making a difference in the lives of others. And I thought, you know, I'm doing that one on one in my job. How can I take that skill set, tweak it, and apply it on a broader scale? So that for me was, it was really important for me to be truthful and honest with that value. What else did I do? I mean, I have a really supportive husband. And he was like if this is what you are into and you want to give it a go, then head out and go for it. Now he doesn't listen to my show because he can't really listen to me. It's funny, he says it's hard. I guess, knowing me, it's a little cringy for maybe my family to listen, but he's very supportive. Yeah, I mean, I hope that answers your question so far. 00:10:27 - Johnny Sanders
Yeah, no, I think that's what I like to get out of some of the guests here. That, again, no one person, even us, has a lot of similarities. Counselors, do podcasting. Our lives are different. We're all individuals, but we all, if we're going to change things in our lives, if we don't like where it's going, it takes two things. One, like you said, we have to do it. And kind of baked up into that is you have to take some risk. Like, when you did that, you weren't guaranteed success. You weren't guaranteed that it was going to go over well, but you did. You did it anyway. 00:11:05 - Lisa Mustard
 Yeah. 00:11:05 - Johnny Sanders
 And I think that's something that keeps a lot of probable listeners here and just society in general from not doing things as well. What if I failed? And it's true, that is a risk, but we don't really ask, like, what if we succeed? Like, what if things go well? And it sounds like that's something that you really worked on balancing of, yeah, I'm gonna step out there, but this might just work. And I've got some good ideas here. 00:11:31 - Lisa Mustard
 Right? Yeah, I mean, and when you said the fear of it not going well or the fear of failure, it was almost like I couldn't fail fast enough because I knew that I would learn from it. So the faster I failed, the quicker I could get better. That makes sense. So I listened to those first couple of episodes. I'm like, yeah, that's where I was. That's where I started. But fast forward to 20 pod courses or continuing education courses later. It's like, it's awesome. It's so much more relaxed. It's so much more fun. The connection I have with my guests has just evolved. And, yeah, what if this does succeed? Be. Is successful? Like, whoa. I honestly never really thought about that. It was more about, I just don't want to fail at it. So it's taken time, you know, for it to get out there and for it to build traction, but consistent consistency of effort, you know, in taking daily intentional action and putting on blinders and not comparing myself to other counselors out there who podcast and finding my own voice and finding my niche, and that's been the most fun, is not comparing myself to others. And maybe that's my age, maybe that's just like. Because now I'm actually, I'm gonna be 51. My birthday's tomorrow. I'll be 51. Now it's kind of like I don't care anymore, but other people think at 40, I think I cared a little bit. A little bit. But now it's like, I don't. I don't know. I just undo me and everybody. There's a space for everybody. You'll find. Your audience will find you. 00:13:03 - Johnny Sanders 
I think that's a really good point. And again, regardless of. Of what you're doing, if you're starting your own business or changing career choices, whatever it may be, you are going to fail. If you are in that comparison game, there are no positives that can come from that. I know I'm that way as a podcaster to you, a relatively new one that I sometimes will get in the habit of, like, checking numbers and things like that. And there are things that you can learn. Okay, this episode went better than this one. So what can I apply? So there's. There's some merit to that, but if you get too deep into that, you just like, oh, yeah, my podcast isn't doing as good as Lisa's. I'll just give up. You know, like, that. That doesn't do us any good. Whereas I got. I got a comment on one of my videos the other day that it didn't even have that many views at the time, but somebody, by the comment, could tell, listened, and appreciated what was being said. And that. That's incredible that your work, the work I put in impacted somebody. Don't compare yourself to the biggest, best podcast or plumbers or whatever that you're looking at. Look at your life and the impact that you've made on somebody. That's a really big deal. 00:14:19 - Lisa Mustard
 It is, completely. And I know what you mean about looking at your numbers and getting caught up. And there was a time when that's all I did. I check them in the morning, I check the middle of the day, I check them at night, and I'm like, what am I looking for? You know? What am I really looking for? Because what is it showing me? You know, I was just. I had to stop checking it after a while because I was like, I don't even know what I'm looking for because you don't really get any feedback on those numbers. You just know that somebody listened, and it's like, okay, now what do you do with that information? So, yeah, it's. It can be the comparison. Comparing yourself to others is the worst thing. We do it because we're humans and we want to know where we stand. But at the same time, it can stop us from moving forward and going after what it is that we want to do next or what we want to try. So I think that's great. Now I want to go and see your videos, and see what they commented. 00:15:14 - Johnny Sanders
 Yeah, it was one that, go ahead and tell you, is one that was a last week of recording. And those of you that listen to this know that often when I talk about the timeframe when you listen to it or see it or whatever, that's. That is probably way off. I don't know when these air whenever I'm taping them. But another thing that applies to this conversation recently up the podcast to twice a week from just Monday to Monday and Friday. And the Friday one's just me. It's just me in the camera kind of talking through usually about what the subject was on Monday. So your future, you listen to this. I might have a Friday episode talking about what me and Lisa are talking about right now, but it was about kind of just males being males trying to get more positive, like, masculinity in the culture. And I really was expressing how, yes, we need men to be men, and that's certainly something we don't see in culture, at least in popular culture much. But also warning against kind of this fake masculinity of, like, I'm above you, like, you're a woman, so who are you to talk to me like that? That's not. That's not useful, that's not helpful. And, yeah, that certainly resonates. Resonated with somebody that they'd seen that even in their church and everything. And again, that impact there. It's not about me or how great I am, but that these ideas are impacting somebody's life. You listening there again, maybe it's not a podcast, but it could be. It could be your words with a family member. It could be you going back to school to get a degree in something that you really want to do. It may just be working super hard, even though you don't love your job right now. Like, you can impact people all the time. It's just you have to be open to sharing and unopened to seeing that impact because again, even with the comments, I could, that I've received, I could look like that's just one person who cares. But it does matter that we need to accept even those words that other people tell us. 00:17:25 - Lisa Mustard
 Right? Right. Yeah, that's really important. Really important. 00:17:29 - Johnny Sanders
 I like that something you shared earlier wanted to get just a little bit more into is, and this is obviously applicable to everybody, is values. Many of you know, some of my story of my values and what led me to make my own counseling practice is just concerns about some of the counseling world in general and the culture in general. And I didn't necessarily want to play by everybody's rules, especially as it relates to some gender issues and things of that nature. I didn't want that to be a part of my practice because my values as both just concerned citizen, a Christian husband, father, all of that outweighed the values of a licensing board or, some person on Twitter or whatever. Like, I, that, that doesn't matter as much to me. So for you going back into your values, what were some more of these values that kind of led you to make some of the decisions you've made and you've stood on some pretty big things, like what keeps you going? What keeps these values having such a big impact on not just your personal life, but also your professional life? 00:18:46 - Lisa Mustard 
That's a great question. I love that question. So other values that I have that I check in with myself every day to make sure I'm, I always say, you know, walking in congruency or walking in alignment with family, family focus. Family first is going to be however you want to say it. But in my, my kids are in the other room, so they, I don't know if they're listening or not, but, you know, my family is first. And that means in all the things. So I'm, you know, am I showing up as the mom that I want to be? Am I showing up as the wife that I want to be? We want to raise healthy children who can function well in this world, who can think for themselves, who can critically think, who are good humans, who value health and wellness, and who are kind and genuine and generous as well. So that's really important. To me, every day I'm checking in with myself. You know, some days are easier than others because I have a lot going on, or maybe I didn't parent the best today, or maybe my husband and I, you know, had a little riff. But at the end of the day, are we able to come back and have the conversation? And I'm a marriage and family therapist, so I am a big believer in, you know, marriage. Your marriage has got to be healthy to have healthy children. Huge believer in that. And then, so that's another value. So with my work, how does that play in with my work for the day job that I have, I am allowed to kind of come and go as I need to. It's flexible. As long as I get my job done, as long as I get to see my clients, it's flexible in that sense of, well, if you have to go and take a kid somewhere, or if you have to go because they need you, then we understand. But I make it work and they respect that. And I think that's wonderful about the, where I work. Also with the starting the podcast and having an extra stream of income, I knew I didn't want to go into private practice and be seeing clients at night, so I had to get real creative about, well, how do I do this in the pockets of my day? Or how do I do this when my kids are around? Because if I was seeing clients at night, I couldn't have my kids around. I couldn't be around them. You know, you have to, of course, be in a confidential, closed environment where you get that work done. So it was important to me when I was thinking about an extra stream of income, what can I do with my family? At least being not involved, but at least I didn't have to go and close the door and leave them. So that was really, really important. Another value that my husband and I, and this is how we met, really, it was just through health and physical fitness is important for us, for me to, you know, I want to be around as long as possible. So taking really good care of myself and having optimal and vibrant health is another value that I have. And so I oftentimes will, you know, I know there are certain things I need to do every day to feel good and to feel like I'm living at that value, whether it's I get to the gym, I go for a walk, I'm feeding myself healthy food, I'm planning and preparing healthy meals for our family. And yes, don't get me wrong, we eat pizza, we eat Chick-fil-A, we eat french fries and we do all those things. I have a drink every.. But I don't. I'm very committed to, you know, like, living that life of health and wellness, and it's just who we are. I mean, at this point, you know, we've been together forever. It seems like it, but it's just, you know, who we are. So we, and we go to bed early, we get our sleep. Self-care is important, but we'd like to have fun, too. So that's another. Faith is also important. And I know that looks different for everybody, but, I think nowadays, spirituality and faith and so much of that can be so tied up in what's going on in the world and being able to take a step back and disconnect from social media and disconnect from the news and disconnect from all of the voices out there that aren't really in alignment with how we want to live our lives. Putting on, you know, boundaries around that is really important. I'm not sure what, what you would call that in terms of a value, but it's, it's, to me, it's connected to, if I'm going to remain in alignment with my spirituality and with my faith, I have to. I have to remember who I am and all of this the impact that I can have in the world and how I can be helpful. What can I do? And a lot of the times, you know, you might, I mindlessly scroll and I'm like, what am I doing? This is, this is not, this is not the person I want to be. This is not what I'm all about. So that's another value. What else is a value? Having fun, music, joy, laughter. You know, all of those things are values. Gratitude. Having a lot of gratitude. You know, it's not always that simple. I don't want people to think that you know, every day I wake up and I'm like, can't wait to hit the gym or I can't wait to eat my protein shake. No, I mean, it's not always like that. No, but I remember that when I'm walking in alignment with those values, man, I just feel good. Things are good. Gratitude is there. Now, it doesn't mean life is easy, but it's a lot easier to handle what is thrown at you when you're walking in alignment with your values. And a lot of people have no idea what their values are. And it's, you know, with clients, I'll ask them that, like, what do you stand for? What's important to you? What do you hold near and dear to your heart? What lights you up? What gets you moving in the morning? What calms you at night when you go to sleep? I mean, a lot of times people don't know because they're so used to the reactiveness of what's being thrown at them that they don't take the time to really think about, well, what are my values? And not that their values have to be my values, but I think that's really why I love this work so much now. Ten years ago, I didn't love it so much. It was so much more reactive to people's symptoms and problems. And now it's like I take a different type of approach and I'm like, well, let's talk about that. What type of meaning do you get out of that? How do you make sense of that in your world today, in your life? Where else does that show up for you? Is this an issue for you? Do you want this to be different? That's the kind of work I really enjoy doing nowadays. Yeah, I mean, I don't know. What do you think about it? I just kind of blah my values on you there? 00:25:19 - Johnny Sanders
 Those are great. And wanted to point out several different things on this. I talk with values about values to my clients all the time because it's, it's what makes you you and it's what makes life have just joy and depth and meaning, unfortunately, and I'm sure that you're no stranger to this either. When you work with people, especially young people, I know it's somewhat of a stereotype, but they just don't have anything to live for or they don't know what they have to live for. Things get dangerous very, very quickly. You have to have meaning in life if you're going to enjoy it and if you're going to be able to keep your mental health in a healthy place. But when we, when we take that further, and you could even see this in the way you were talking, there are those core values, those top ones. Mine are very similar to yours in a lot of ways. And it was interesting when you're talking about evening clients, something that I've implemented here recently, I do see a few evening clients, but, I make it because I value my kids, I value my family. I feel I forced that into what works for me and my family. So my kids, they go to, they're young, they're four and under, and they go to bed at seven. So I never any day work between the hours of five to seven. That is always open, and we get to eat dinner and play games or whatever and put them to bed. I get to help my wife out through the bedtime process. That is important. I don't do evening clients every night, but that's a way that I can still make those values work in conjunction for me. And other counselors are gonna have different needs and things like that. But what I can't do and be a healthy member of society, daddy, and husband, is work those five to 7 hours every day just because I know I can get more clients. Those are pretty popular hours. That's not going to work. It's going to impact me. My kids aren't going to get to see me. My wife's going to be stressed out putting the kids to bed. It's important that we know what those are, but we have the top values, those core ones, and then we have someone's down at the bottom, um, that they're nice, but they're not. Like, we don't have to protect them at all costs. Like, I like football. That's a value of mine. But if it's between my kids, my daughter has a soccer game or something, or I want to watch a football game, my daughter wins. That values higher. Sure. So it's not about setting your life to where none of your values ever have any question, ever. But those top ones you talk about living in congruence. I don't care if you have a million dollars every day that you get. You're not gonna live a happy, well life if you're trampling your values to get a bunch of money or status or power or whatever it may be, it's just simply not worth it. So I think that's some great wisdom that you're bringing in here, that just because I want to switch something up and maybe I'm. What I'm switching up to is great. Don't let it trample your values, or otherwise, you're just gonna have more problems pop up. 00:28:47 - Lisa Mustard
 Right? Yes, you will. Exactly. 00:28:51 - Johnny Sanders
 Great. Well, Lisa, I know that those listening to you today, whether maybe, maybe we do have some counselors on here that are like boy, I want to learn to do these pod courses, or I want to be in contact with her so I can be in touch with her. That, as I mentioned, is how I found Lisa through kind of our secret little counselor group of some similar values, and a lot of people are attracted to that. But maybe, you're not. Maybe you're not a counselor, but, like, hey, this still sounds interesting. I want to be in contact with her and know more about her after the show. Where can people be in contact with you and find out more information about you? 00:29:32 - Lisa Mustard
 Yeah, that's. That's. Thank you. So if you are a therapist out there and you want some continuing education and you want to do it on the go, then you can always go to my website, which is Lisamustard.com, and you'll see the different tabs for the different courses that I offer. I am an MVCC-approved provider, so that means that LMFTs, LPCs, LMHC, and most states will accept MVCC as something you can use towards your license. If you are not a therapist and you are curious to learn more. What I do, if I can help you, you can also go to my website. On the About Me page, you'll see my contact information. In the future, I am going to be offering hypnotherapy for women. I'm going to focus on women. And I think that I'm feeling like the calling to do the hypnotherapy is around weight and self-esteem issues. So at the gym, a lot of personal trainer friends, you know, the things we talk about, it's not necessarily, you know, the workouts or the nutrition that people fumble on. It's the self-sabotage. It's the being able to stick to it. And so what I love about hypnotherapy is it's like therapy, but it's more like life coaching because I want to be able to open it up and offer it to anybody across the country, not just in South Carolina, where I'm licensed. So if you struggle, if you're a woman and you've been trying to lose weight and you're struggling and you're not, you just can't seem to get it, then what hypnotherapy does is it helps you tap into your unconscious beliefs that you're holding onto. That's keeping you from being able to move forward and reach your goals. So you can learn more over on my website, and you can always, if you want a free consultation, just reach out. You can see that on my website and I would love to talk to you and we can just see if I'm a fit for helping you out. So I think those are all the ways you can reach me. I am on Instagram. I am on Facebook. My email, you can just. You can always email me at LisaMustard.com as well. 00:31:29 - Johnny Sanders
 Fantastic. And I'll have some of those links. 00:31:32 - Johnny Sanders
 Down there in the description. 00:31:33 - Johnny Sanders
 So you guys can easily find that and get in contact with Lisa. And, yeah, Lisa, once again, thanks so much for being on today. 00:31:40 - Lisa Mustard 
Oh, my gosh. Well, thanks for having me, Johnny. I'm just, I'm thrilled that you asked me, so thank you so much. 00:31:46 - Johnny Sanders
 Absolutely. Thank you to everybody who tuned in today, and we will catch you on the next episode.