00:00:00 -Johnny Sanders
 Do you enjoy listening to podcasts and think, man, I would like to make my own podcast? This is where I found myself last year, and I have learned a lot about what to do and a lot about what not to do. I'm offering consulting services to help you launch your podcast, especially if you're looking to make a more Christian or conservative podcast. To find out more information@faithfullyengaged.com I have a link down in the description below if you would like help on getting your podcast. Well, welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. I'm really excited to have my guest with me today. His name is Philip Blackett, and he's been involved in all sorts of different things as part of what intrigued me about him when I found him online, he's been an author, consultant, and entrepreneur. So, Philip, it's great to have you on, why don't you share just a little bit more about yourself with the audience? 00:01:07 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah. Thank you so much, Johnny. Happy to be here on the show with you. So, as he mentioned, my name is Philip Blackett. Originally from Memphis, Tennessee. I went to school in North Carolina, Chapel Hill, majoring in political science and economics, then moved up to New York City, worked on Wall Street for a little bit, corporate America. Did some entrepreneurial endeavors in between New York and back home in Memphis. Came back up to Boston for business school. That's where I met my wife. We got married the day after graduation. Got kids in the first year, actually two, as in twin daughters that are now seven years old. And, you know, essentially from there, worked on having a business that I was running and managing during the pandemic. I went to seminary during that time as well, feeling that God was calling me to something on the next level for me. And I think at this point, you know, I'm just at a point where I'm just about to be 40 years old. You're starting to look at this as far as more reflective, as far as how the first 40 years are, as far as your life is going, and God willing, what the next 40 will be. So not trying to look at this as a midlife crisis, looking at it as a midlife evaluation and seeing where things are. Take inventory and say, hey, God, like where do you want me to go? So we started 2024 pretty good. Published six books about a couple of months ago. Definitely can share more detail about that. But really just looking at instances like, how can I help grow God's people, grow God's businesses, and grow God's kingdom, whether it's through books, speaking, consulting, entrepreneurship, parenting, marriage, all the above. 00:02:47 - Johnny Sanders
 Fantastic. And those of you who have listened to the show for very long know how much I value having people on who are doing that. That's the whole idea for this podcast, is to not just be stuck in anger and apathy, complaining about stuff, but actually doing. And one thing that initially drew me to you, Washington, your, book, isagree without disrespect. This is something that I don't know when you may be listening to this, it may be in the future, but currently, this is 2024, and this is a pretty major presidential election year. So disagreeing and disrespect seem to go hand in hand, you know, with, they're the enemy, I'm the good guy, you're the bad guy. That seems to be how we discuss politics and things of that nature. So kind of just walk us through a little bit about why you, you wrote this book and, yeah, what, what the readers are supposed to do with this information. 00:03:48 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah. So part of it, Johnny, is that you know, this wasn't a book just for 2024. This wasn't a book just for political reasons, either. You know, the full title of the book is Disagree Without Disrespect: How to Respectfully Debate with Those Who Think, Believe, and Vote Differently From You. And so the thought process behind that is more than likely in any relationship we have, whether it's a parent, a child, a friend, a significant other, a colleague at work, or just an acquaintance or someone you meet at your place of worship, if you spend enough time with that person, I'm pretty sure you'll not only find things that you have agreement in as far as, like, common ground, and if you also spend time with them, you're also probably going to find some things that you don't agree with. And so the question is, just like the Bible says, it's easy to love those who love us, but it's a whole nother thing to love those who don't love you. And sometimes that may be because they disagree with you. They disagree with something that you believe in, they disagree with how you think about things, or they disagree with who you vote for. And so that was a huge inspiration for me, along with my own personal experience with my own family, to say, hey, I really want to be able to be authentic. As timely as that word is nowadays, has been thrown around a lot recently. I want to be true to myself. And what that means is that instead of me, like, keeping thoughts behind the back of my head, maybe ideas, I would advocate, you know, solutions I will propose that I think make sense. And I recognize that the recovering people pleaser in me may say, hey, don't share that because somebody might not agree with you 100%. Well, social media has a funny way that basically everyone has the platform, everyone has a say, and a lot of people just are saying what's on their mind, regardless of what people else have to say. And I think that while that's. That's good, I think that we've lost the rules of engagement that, frankly, I was growing up under, where you actually can talk about topics like religion, politics, money, or have disagreement on any issue and still have a healthy, respectful conversation. It's where you can essentially have a time where you may disagree with somebody and yet still respect and love that person in a healthy relationship. Now, I do believe, despite how our society is today, we can still get to that point. We just need to know how to do it. And so that's what I'm hoping, that this book will help people with a simple five-step framework that could allow them to be able to have these type of tough conversations and still build relationships along the way without having to be silenced, unfriended, or even canceled. 00:06:56 - Johnny Sanders 
A few things that stood out to me of what you said there. One is just the notion that it's possible, I think, in this social media, cancel culture, that whole type of mindset that's in the culture. And don't get me wrong, it is more difficult. There are things that can be hard to process through and that people pleaser piece that a lot of us have. You know, we don't want to cause a fuss or anything. So I get it. I get there's some of those difficulties, but so much of the limitation factor is you just don't say anything. You just get along to get, get along to get along. We don't actually have this disagreement piece because that's being mean. It's being mean to disagree, and that's not really true. It's how we handle that disagreement that really matters. And you mentioned this five-step framework. Could you tell us a little bit more about what that five-step framework is? 00:07:55 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah. So it's really simple. Sometimes it might be helpful for me to illustrate it by doing some sort of potential argument in real time. Right. So, for example, Johnny, it looks like you have an Oklahoma t-shirt on. Is Oklahoma like, a favorite football team of yours? 00:08:14 - Johnny Sanders
 Yes, it is. 00:08:16 - Philip Blackett
 What would you say is Oklahoma's arch-rival, Texas? Okay, so pretend for this conversation, I am a die-hard Texas fan. You know, go Longhorns right? And you're an Oklahoma Sooner fan. And let's say that we are getting together because they are playing the rival game this weekend and we're talking about who might actually win or who has, or better yet, which team has had the best college football career, if we want to call it that, the best legacy, talking about championships, awards, best players, that sort of thing. So we're going to get involved with that. We're going to have a conversation and debate on that. The first step I go about in the framework is basically one separate the idea or belief from the identity of the believer. So in this scenario, I'm pro-Texas. Texas has the better future, and the better legacy college football Johnny is for Oklahoma. So why step number one is important and we should separate the idea from the identity of the believer is that oftentimes we come across people that are so intertwined with a particular idea or belief that it essentially becomes who they are as in their identity. And for me to say I disagree and think that Oklahoma is not the best among the conference or compared to Texas when it comes to their college football legacy, Johnny may be so intertwined, such a die-hard Oklahoma fan, that he might take it personally. What I said, he might get defensive, maybe build up a wall, figuratively speaking, and start to attack me because now he's on the defensive and now he's taking the personal. Now his ego is in check and he wants to protect that. But I'm not talking about me being anti-Johnny. I'm talking about, I disagree about Oklahoma being the best. Right? So that leads into step two where I can actually disagree with the idea of belief and yet still love the believer. So that's kind of a play-off of what I learned in church where you can hate the sinhouse and love the center. So in this scenario, I could say, well, Johnny, I disagree. I think Oklahoma is trash compared to Texas. I'll tell you why in a little bit. But before I do, I just want to let you know that I still respect you as my friend. I still appreciate our friendship. I may not say that exactly before we actually debate, but the thought is that even if I disagree, the thought is how I look at Johnny is he's still my friend. We may disagree with the issue at hand, but that's not going to change, nor should it change how I view him as a person because we also live in a society where a lot, for a lot of people, love is contingent on agreement, meaning that for me to love you, I have to agree with you. If I disagree with you, I hate you. And that's a lie. It's not true. But many people have that sort of binary relationship. Either you love me or you hate me. If you agree with me, you're good with me. If you disagree with me, I don't want to deal with you. Right. And that's part of why we're in the mess we're in today. So this is part of trying to change that before we actually get into the debate. So now, step three, we can now put all that aside once we set the groundworks for it and just debate the issue at hand. But more importantly, we debate it not by name calling, not by any overly drawn-out emotional responses. We focus on the merits. By merits, I mean what are the facts? Where's the logic, the analysis, the performance, the results? How many championships? How many top ten players, Heisman Trophy winners, NFL players, the winning percentage, winning percentage overall in the conference against each other? Like, what I love about sports is it's about as close to a meritocracy as you can possibly get. Either you can play or you can't. Either you have more points on the board when the game ends or you don't. You win or you lose. So just based off that, you can have a more of a closer apples-to-apples comparison, to be able to tell, hey, which one is better, just keep it strictly, just at the issue of hand. Don't get personal with it. And so step four, after you have the debate, is simply doing what our teams do or they should do after the game. Whether Texas won or they lost. Whether Johnny sees my side of the argument or he doesn't, or if we see ourselves on opposite sides of the spectrum still, or some third alternative we weren't even expecting to begin with. We can still do what Texas and Oklahoma football players are likely to do after the game. Win or lose, they go up to the other players and they shake hands and say good game. You'd be a good sport about it doesn't just apply to sports. It can apply to any sort of debate or conversation because no one wants a sore loser and nobody wants a sore winner. So being a good sport about it, respectfully, can help out lead to step five, where afterward you can respect and appreciate the person. And even if you still disagree, you can chalk that up to it being diversity of thought, agreeing to disagree, but respecting that person's different opinion, but more importantly, keeping the door open for continued conversation. So it might be the sense like, okay, Johnny and I, we talked about this and I still think that Texas won is better. Texas and Oklahoma play. Oklahoma wins this time. All right. Johnny's really excited about it. Okay, no problem. Good game. Hey, Johnny, it looks like they're about to play in the conference championship in a couple of weeks. Potentially. If you want to get together, then see if we can continue the conversation. And basically, what happens there is you allow people to continue to build the relationship afterward. Because what I want to see, or what I would rather see from us is the mindset, the relationship we have with one another should be more important than who's right or who's wrong. Because too oftentimes in today's society, this quote, unquote, debates lead to broken friendships, canceled partnerships, and people completely deleting them, unfollowing them, unfriending them, simply just one-off transactions. It's not a relationship build. It's more of a relationship broken. And if we continue that for a very long time, we're going to have a very polarized society, a very unfriendly, unloving society. And I don't think that's what we want. 00:15:58 - Johnny Sanders
 I love that you use this example to kind of show, show me, and show the audience what I like about this. I share things like this and my day job as a counselor with some of the clients and couples that I work with, that a lot of conflict resolution dealing with these things. It's not, it's not complicated. What you just walked through was nothing super complicated or that people can't understand it. It takes discipline. It can be hard in the moment to keep your emotions in check. Yeah, that. That part's hard at times. It's not complicated. And it goes back to us limiting ourselves and saying that it's not possible. I can't agree with the liberal across the aisle, the conservative across the aisle, or honestly, another example I had in my mind is two different people in the church that kind of had a friendly rivalry, so to speak, two different theologians, yet John MacArthur's kind of had more of a baptist type of background, and RC Sproul had more of a presbyterian type of background. They disagreed on all sorts of matters, but they loved each other, that they were friends. They had healthy debates. Um, and that's something I. Speaking into the church, even at the church, I don't think we're doing a great job of right now. Um, we're almost, like you said, putting the person down and not just the ideas. So this is something that said, I frame it in a, in a voting context for this year, which it is applicable for voting politics, but for church, for family matters, really any type of dispute these principles apply, right? 00:17:48 -Philip Blackett
 Yeah, I think, like I said, you know, the believed part in the subtitle of the book that's very much applicable when it comes to the church, you know, so you might have two different denominations, right? A Baptist and a Presbyterian. There are certain things you agree on, hopefully, as far as the most important things, as far as what makes you a Christian, regardless of denomination. But then certain things as far as, like, practices you exhibit and you model within a denomination that might be different, but ultimately you can still look at each other as brothers and sisters united in Christ, even if you have different practices that don't refute or go against what the Bible says necessarily, as far as what makes you a follower of Jesus. But at the same time, you can at least respect a different culture within different denominations. There. 00:18:48 - Johnny Sanders This is something that you addressed a little bit earlier, just talking about your Christian faith and how that has really influenced even the disagreeing process and everything. And if you're listening and you're a Christian, we know that our faith isn't just supposed to impact Sunday, just impact my own personal study, like supposed to impact everything, our whole life. And something, that was intriguing to me about you is talking about how your, Christian faith really changed political beliefs from being more. More liberal-minded to more conservative. How? 00:00:00 - Johnny Sanders
Do you enjoy listening to podcasts and think, man, I would like to make my own podcast? This is where I found myself last year, and I have learned a lot about what to do and a lot about what not to do. I'm offering consulting services to help you launch your podcast, especially if you're looking to make a more Christian or conservative podcast. To find out more information@faithfullyengaged.com I have a link down in the description below if you would like help on getting your podcast. Well, welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Faithfully Engaged. I'm really excited to have my guest with me today. His name is Philip Blackett, and he's been involved in all sorts of different things as part of what intrigued me about him when I found him online, he's been an author, consultant, and entrepreneur. So, Philip, it's great to have you on, why don't you share just a little bit more about yourself with the audience? 00:01:07 - Philip Blackett
Yeah. Thank you so much, Johnny. Happy to be here on the show with you. So, as he mentioned, my name is Philip Blackett. Originally from Memphis, Tennessee. I went to school in North Carolina, Chapel Hill, majoring in political science and economics, then moved up to New York City, worked on Wall Street for a little bit, corporate America. Did some entrepreneurial endeavors in between New York and back home in Memphis. Came back up to Boston for business school. That's where I met my wife. We got married the day after graduation. Got kids in the first year, actually two, as in twin daughters that are now seven years old. And, you know, essentially from there, worked on having a business that I was running and managing during the pandemic. I went to seminary during that time as well, feeling that God was calling me to something on the next level for me. And I think at this point, you know, I'm just at a point where I'm just about to be 40 years old. You're starting to look at this as far as more reflective, as far as how the first 40 years are, as far as your life is going, and God willing, what the next 40 will be. So not trying to look at this as a midlife crisis, looking at it as a midlife evaluation and seeing where things are. Take inventory and say, hey, God, like where do you want me to go? So we started 2024 pretty good. Published six books about a couple of months ago. Definitely can share more detail about that. But really just looking at instances like, how can I help grow God's people, grow God's businesses, and grow God's kingdom, whether it's through books, speaking, consulting, entrepreneurship, parenting, marriage, all the above. 00:02:47 - Johnny Sanders
 Fantastic. And those of you who have listened to the show for very long know how much I value having people on that are doing that. That's the whole idea for this podcast, is to not just be stuck in anger and apathy, complaining about stuff, but actually doing. And one thing that initially drew me to you, Washington, your, book, isagree without disrespect. This is something that I don't know when you may be listening to this, it may be in the future, but currently this is 2024, and this is a pretty major presidential election year. So disagreeing and disrespect seem to go hand in hand, you know, with, they're the enemy, I'm the good guy, you're the bad guy. That seems to how we discuss politics and things of that nature. So kind of just walk us through a little bit about why you, you wrote this book and, yeah, what, what the readers are supposed to do with this information. 00:03:48 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah. So part of it, Johnny, is that, you know, this wasn't a book just for 2024. This wasn't a book just for political reasons, either. You know, the full title of the book is isagree without disrespect, how to respectfully debate with those who think, I think, believe, and vote differently from you. And so the thought process behind that is more than likely in any relationship we have, whether it's a parent, a child, a friend, a significant other, a colleague at work, or just an acquaintance or someone you meet at your place of worship, if you spend enough time with that person, I'm pretty sure you'll not only find things that you have agreement in as far as, like, common ground, and if you also spend time with them, you're also probably going to find some things that you don't agree with. And so the question is, just like the Bible says, it's easy to love those who love us, but it's a whole nother thing to love those who don't love you. And sometimes that may be because they disagree with you. They disagree with something that you believe in, the disagree with how you think about things, or they disagree with who you vote for. And so that was a huge inspiration for me, along with my own personal experience with my own family, to say, hey, I really want to be able to be authentic. As timely as that word is nowadays, has been thrown around a lot recently. I want to be true to myself. And what that means is that instead of me, like, keeping thoughts behind the back of my head, maybe ideas, I would advocate, you know, solutions I will propose that I think make sense. And I recognize that the recovering people pleaser in me may say, hey, don't share that because somebody might not agree with you 100%. Well, social media has a funny way that basically everyone's having the platform, everyone has a say, and a lot of people just are saying what's on their mind, regardless of what people else had to say. And I think that while that's. That's good, I think that we've lost the rules of engagement that, frankly, I was growing up under, where you actually can talk about topics like religion, politics, money, or have disagreement on any issue and still have a healthy, respectful conversation. It's where you can essentially have a time where you may disagree with somebody and yet still respect and love that person in a healthy relationship. Now, I do believe, despite how our society is today, we can still get to that point. We just need to know how to do it. And so that's what I'm hoping, that this book will help people with a simple five step framework that could allow them to be able to have these type of tough conversations and still build relationships along the way without having to be silenced, unfriended, or even canceled. 00:06:56 - Johnny Sanders
 A few things that stood out to me of what you said there. One is just the notion that it's possible, I think, in this social media, cancel culture, that whole type of mindset that's in the culture. And don't get me wrong, it is more difficult. There are things that can be hard to process through and that people pleaser piece that a lot of us have. You know, we don't want to cause a fuss or anything. So I get it. I get there's some of those difficulties, but so much of the limitation factor is you just don't say anything. You just get along to get, get along to get along. We don't actually have this disagreement piece because that's being mean. It's being mean to disagree, and that's not really true. It's how we handle that disagreement that really matters. And you mentioned this five step framework. Could you tell us a little bit more about what that five step framework is? 00:07:55 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah. So it's real simple. Sometimes it might be helpful for me to illustrate it by doing something sort of potential argument in real time. Right. So, for example, Johnny, it looks like you have an Oklahoma t shirt on. Is Oklahoma like, a favorite football team of yours? 00:08:14 - Johnny Sanders
Yes, it is. 00:08:16 - Philip Blackett
 What would you say is Oklahoma's arch rival, Texas? Okay, so pretend for this conversation, I am a die hard Texas fan. You know, go Longhorns right. And you're Oklahoma sooner fan. And let's say that we are getting together because they are playing the rival game this weekend and we're talking about who might actually win or who has, better yet, which team has had the best college football career, if we want to call it that, the best legacy, talking about championships, awards, best players, that sort of thing. So we're going to get involved with that. We're going to have a conversation, debate on that. The first step I go about in the framework is basically one separate the idea or belief from the identity of the believer. So in this scenario, I'm pro Texas. Texas has the better future, the better legacy college football Johnny is for Oklahoma. So why step number one is important and we should separate the idea from the identity of the believer is that oftentimes we come across people that are so intertwined with a particular idea or belief that it essentially becomes who they are as in their identity. And that for me to say I disagree and think that Oklahoma is not the best among the conference or compared to Texas when it comes to their college football legacy, Johnny may be so intertwined, such a die hard Oklahoma fan, that he might take it personal. What I said, he might get defensive, maybe build up a wall, figuratively speaking, and start to attack me because now he's on the defensive and now he's taking the personal. Now his ego is in check and he wants to protect that. But I'm not talking about me being anti Johnny. I'm talking about I disagree about Oklahoma being the best. Right? So that leads into step two where I can actually disagree with the idea of belief and yet still love the believer. So that's kind of a play off of what I learned in church where you can hate the sinhouse and love the center. So in this scenario, I could say, well, Johnny, I disagree. I think Oklahoma is trash compared to Texas. I'll tell you why in a little bit. But just before I do, I just want to let you know that I still respect you as my friend. I still appreciate our friendship. I may not say that exactly before we actually debate, but the thought is that even if I disagree, the thought is how I look at Johnny is he's still my friend. We may disagree with the issue at hand, but that's not going to change, nor should it change how I view him as a person, because we also live in a society that a lot, for a lot of people, love is contingent on agreement, meaning that for me to love you, I have to agree with you. If I disagree with you, I hate you. And that's a lie. It's not true. But many people have that sort of binary relationship. Either you love me or you hate me. If you agree with me, you're good with me. If you disagree with me, I don't want to deal with you. Right. And that's part of why we're in the mess we're in today. So this is part of trying to change that before we actually get into the debate. So now, step three, we can now put all that aside once we set the groundworks for it and just debate the issue at hand. But more importantly, we debate it not by name calling, not by any overly drawn out emotional responses. We focus on the merits. By merits, I'm meaning what are the facts? Where's the logic, the analysis, the performance, the results? How many championships? How many top ten players, Heisman Trophy winners, NFL players, the winning percentage, winning percentage overall in the conference against each other. Like, what I love about sports is it's about as close to a meritocracy as you can possibly get. Either you can play or you can't. Either you have more points on the board when the game ends or you don't. You win or you lose. So just based off that, you can have a more of a closer apples to apples comparison, to be able to tell, hey, which one is better, just keep it strictly, just at the issue of hand. Don't get personal with it. And so step four, after you have the debate, is simply doing what our teams do or they should do after the game. Whether Texas won or they lost. Whether Johnny sees my side of the argument or he doesn't, or if we see ourselves on opposite sides of the spectrum still, or some third alternative we weren't even expecting to begin with. We can still do what Texas and Oklahoma football players are likely to do after the game. Win or lose, they go up to the other players and they shake hands and say, good game. You'd be a good sport about it doesn't just apply just to sports. It can apply to any sort of debate or conversation, because no one wants a sore loser and nobody wants a sore winner. So being a good sport about it, respectfully, can help out lead into step five, where afterwards you can respect and appreciate the person. And even if you still disagree, you can chalk that up to it being diversity of thought, agreeing to disagree, but respecting that person's different opinion, but more importantly, keeping the door open for continued conversation. So it might be the sense like, okay, Johnny and I, we talked about this and I still think that Texas won is better. Texas and Oklahoma play. Oklahoma wins this time. All right. Johnny's really excited about it. Okay, no problem. Good game. Hey, Johnny, it looks like they're about to play in the conference championship in a couple weeks. Potentially. You want to get together, then see if we can continue the conversation. And basically what happens there is you allow people to continue to build the relationship afterwards. Because what I want to see, or what I would rather see from us is the mindset, the relationship we have with one another should be more important than who's right or who's wrong. Because too oftentimes in today's society, these quote, unquote, debates lead to broken friendships, canceled partnerships, and people completely deleting them, unfollowing them, unfriending them, simply just one off transactions. It's not a relationship build. It's more a relationship broken. And if we continue that for a very long time, we're going to have a very polarized society, a very unfriendly, unloving society. And I don't think that's what we want. 00:15:58 - Johnny Sanders 
I love that you use this example to kind of show, show me, show the audience what I like about this. And I share things like this and my day job as a counselor with some of the clients and couples that I work with, that a lot of conflict resolution dealing with these things. It's not, it's not complicated. What you just walked through was nothing super complicated or that people can't understand it. It takes discipline. It can be hard in the moment to keep your emotions in check. Yeah, that. That part's hard at times. It's not complicated. And it goes back into us limiting ourselves and saying that it's not possible. I can't agree with the liberal across the aisle, the conservative across the aisle, or honestly, another example I had in my mind is two different people in the church that kind of had a friendly rivalry, so to speak, two different theologians, yet John MacArthur's kind of had more of a baptist type of background, and RC Sproul had more of a presbyterian type of background. They disagreed on all sorts of matters, but they loved each other, that they were friends. They had healthy debates. Um, and that's something I. Speaking into the church, even at the church, I don't think we're doing a great job of right now. Um, we're almost, like you said, putting the person down and not just the ideas. So this is something that said, I frame it in a, in a voting context for this year, which it is applicable for voting politics, but for church, for family matters, really any type of dispute these principles apply, right? 00:17:48 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah, I think, like I said, you know, the believed part in the subtitle of the book that's very much applicable when it comes to in the church, you know, so you might have two different denominations, right? A Baptist and a Presbyterian. There's certain things you agree on, hopefully, as far as the most important things, as far as what makes you a Christian, regardless of denomination. But then certain things as far as, like, practices you exhibit and you model within a denomination that might be different, but ultimately you can still look at each other as brothers and sisters united in Christ, even if you have different practices that don't refute or go against what the Bible says necessarily, as far as what makes you a follower of Jesus. But at the same time, you can at least respect a different culture within different denominations there. 00:18:48 - Johnny Sanders
 This is something that you addressed a little bit earlier, just talking about your Christian faith and how that has really influenced even the disagreeing process and everything. And if you're listening and you're a Christian, we know that our faith isn't just supposed to impact Sunday, just impact my own personal study, like supposed to impact everything, our whole life. And something that, that was intriguing to me about you is talking about how your, your christian faith really changed political beliefs from being more. More liberal minded to more conservative. How? Walk us through that. What was that conversion experience like? Not just with, with the faith, but even with some political beliefs. 00:19:38 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah. So I think part of how I look at it, Johnny, is usually with a question that I ask myself, and I'll ask you, too, and they'll kind of illustrate it as well. Johnny, you have a Bible, right? Do you believe that it's the word of God? 00:19:52 - Johnny Sanders
 Absolutely. 00:19:54 - Philip Blackett
 Do you believe that the Bible is without error, that it's infallible, that it's God's standard as far as what's right and what's wrong? 00:20:03 - Johnny Sanders
 Yes. 00:20:04 - Philip Blackett
 That would make you a conservative. And what I mean by that, Johnny, I know that's a simple example, but it's definitely part of the process. Right. Where the book you're referring to is Jesus over black, how my faith transformed me from a liberal to a conservative within the black community. Why do I say that? Well, if I had that belief as far as what the Bible is, because I also understand there's some denominations that may not hold that belief, that the Bible in and of itself is sufficient, that it's without error, that is infallible, it's inerrant, and it is the standard of right and wrong. It is God's word. It is the word of God. And thus, for me, that is the standard I go off of when I live my life. And so that is the final say. So as far as what I do in my life. And so when I think about that putting my trust in that word that preceded me, that previous generations of my family put their trust in something I want to conserve as far as, like, what the Bible says, the principles and values that come out of that, compared to how people are living now, I can look more old fashioned, more traditional, more conservative, because a lot of the problems and issues and topics du jour that we're talking about nowadays, I was taught that you take the Bible, you put it alongside that problem, and you ask how God would go about this. Other people would do something along the lines of redefining what it is or coming up with their own solution. And so I think that even within the black community, as far as my book is talking about, there are definitely black congregations, black denominations within Christianity, that because of a certain position, they may take on a certain issue, whether major or minority. If I'm going straight, strictly more so off the Bible, I'd be seen as more conservative based on what they're going off of. 00:22:18 - Johnny Sanders
 I really like the way that you line this out, that, and I'm a huge proponent of this, that it's like said earlier, scripture, our faith, it needs to be inside out. So I get my truth, your truth. We would hear that often in culture, I get truth from the word of God. It comes from God. It's not from my own being, it's not from my own feelings. And that emanates outward, and that includes politics as well. But it doesn't go the other way. So by that, I mean, well, I like this economic policy or whatever it may be. And I. Well, a lot of Christians tend to vote Republican or more conservative. So because of that, maybe I should just pander a little bit to a Christian audience. It's more outside in. It's not really a transformative belief. It's not coming from scripture. It's just trying to. Trying to get some votes. And this is something that I've seen that I think we're in a more polarized society. That's why I think learning how to disagree well is so important. But we're seeing this faction within the republican party, and not just Republican within the Conservative movement, that seems to be more policy driven or more ideal, just within those own ideals and not necessarily emanating from scripture and talk about name calling and all sorts of things that get thrown out there, an increasingly godless culture as a whole, but also more of a godless tint and the conservative side of things. I frame all this to say for those of us who are believers and our believers believe all the things you just said about scripture, about God, and maybe vote more right-leaning. What do you think Christians should do in this environment that maybe we see? Well, yeah, vote for this person because I do like their policies over here, but it doesn't really seem super godlike either. What advice do you give to Christians on how to vote or how to deal politically when there's a kind of increasing godlessness on your own side? 00:24:49 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah, I think it's a great question, Johnny. For me to start, the first thing I would say is, let's get all on the same page for one absolute truth here. Jesus Christ is not going to be on the ballot this November. What I mean by that is the one man who's walked this earth sinless, perfect, without blemish. He is not coming to be our president or any public official when he comes back. We're talking about a whole nother thing beyond politics. I can guarantee you that. So with that being said, anybody that's on an election poll for you to vote on is going to be flawed in some shape or form. You're basically having sinners voting for other centers to lead a government. And if you don't believe me, go. Go back to the Old Testament and examine how things were with Saul and David going forward when they wanted a king over God. Okay? So that's one thing. The second thing I would say is with that being said, absolutely how I would look at it as a conservative, as a Christian is when I think about politics, I want to go off of the base of principles and worldview rather than personality and peer pressure. So what I mean by that is whoever the person is, I'm more concerned about what policies or what platform is that person running on and what is he or she going to do once you're in office. I'm basically voting for somebody to do a job. I'm not voting for someone to be my savior. That's already been taken as far as job title. Right. So I don't have to worry about that. I'm not voting on a spouse. I'm not voting on the best friend. Frankly, I'm not voting on a role model either. I like to, but I think at the end of the day, compared to other alternatives that are on the ballot, I would think of this as a sense that on the conservative or on the Republican side of things, if I'm going that route, which I am, I want somebody that in comparison to all the other candidates on the ballot, for any of those positions, that person is much more likely to be aligned with what I believe is important with regards to conservative principles, conservative values, more of a biblical worldview that we'll look at then all alternatives. Now, with that being said, I also acknowledge Johnny, the republican party, for example, they could change ship at any point in time. The other party could all of a sudden say, you know what? We've been going down this route. We don't want to be this liberal, we don't want to be this left-leaning. We want to change our ways and we want to be going more closer to a biblical worldview. If that happened, guess what? I might have to reconsider and see which party is better. That's part of why in my book, Jesus over Black, I say Jesus is the most important part of my identity. Not Republican, not Democrat, not black, not white, not male, not female. We're supposed to be united in Christ. So with that being said, my party affiliation at the present moment is because it's the closest to what I deem is most important regarding principles and worldview, not personality and peer pressure. So I would say, for everyone who's thinking about that, listen, have a good sense of what you stand for, and find the right person that is most aligned to what you deem is important for what matters to you, your family, and your community. 00:28:59 - Johnny Sanders
 Absolutely. I think that was a well-rounded way of talking through this when you're voting. And I think really to add to what you're saying is looking at yourself, if you're somebody that's struggling with who to vote for, maybe not just this election. I've also stressed on the show a lot of don't neglect, um, your county commissioner and just all those seemingly small things that you don't think are that big of a deal. Um, and then I think for a lot of people realize during COVID especially, yeah, all of those things are a really big deal. Um, so don't neglect those positions as well, that they in a lot of ways have more influence over you. But regardless of if you agree with the people that are running or not, um, look at it of, like you said, who is going to best fulfill this job and it's not going to be perfect. I think some people, we need to check our hearts to realize that politics are not going to save us. It's not going to save our culture. Um, it can be a piece of it. Um, God is in charge of everything, even the rulers over us that we don't agree with. Um, so it does matter, but our hope cannot be fully placed in that. And when you have that mindset, like, yes, your vote still matters, but it's not all or nothing. We're all gonna die or live based on this one vote. It matters, but my hope is in Christ. And we need to make sure that that heart is located that way. Because, yeah, if everything is lined up, my whole life is staked on this one vote. Forget who you're struggling to vote for. Just your anxiety is gonna shoot through the roof. Um, and you're not going to do much. You're just going to sit there, be passive, maybe see what the elections result or not. And I'm either going to get in my bunker and run away or, um, I'm going to be happy. And we just don't need to have anything, much less an election. Talk about the football team, um, anything to tie your heart so much in this world except for Christ. Um, and that's just a gut check. I'm not saying I was somebody that's figured it out myself. We all need that gut check and center back on Christ and not politics, sports, whatever. Even our own families. That can't be our sole source of hope if we're going to make it. 00:31:24 - Philip Blackett
 Exactly. Exactly. I think that that's very key because you help me see, one of the things that comes to my mind, even just with the election, I think you raise a good point. There's a lot of attention to one position being president and vice president. But there are a lot of other positions that are up for election that is very important. And I think this year and last year have been a key reminder that some of the local positions and officials that we might gloss over and not pay much attention to can absolutely have a significant impact in our community and our families. And one of which is the school board, because a big topic nowadays is the type of books that our children are exposed to in the library, the type of curriculum that's being taught in the school system. Right. And so I think that has been one where I've definitely seen a number of people really start to take more seriously who they vote in for something as simple as a city alderman or a school board representative because they're having a better sense of, oh, wow, this is impacting me much more locally, much more closely, much more directly than whoever I elect as president or vice president. And then the second thing I would say is, I think you're spot on there, Johnny. Like, we have a savior. The government is not our savior. And so we have to be really careful that we try to put somebody up on a pedestal that doesn't deserve to be there because we're not meant to make idols. We shouldn't have anyone take the place of Jesus. And that even includes our politicians. 00:33:12 - Johnny Sanders
 Absolutely. And, again, if you're sitting there listening and you're struggling with it, take your time, look through your own worldview, your own positions, and compare to scripture. Everything has to be compared to scripture. And then go out and do the best that you can with it. But, yes, be active in your, in your church. Big one on that, too. That I don't care who you vote for. If you're a Christian, your number one urgency is to get into a Bible-believing church and have some brothers and sisters around you who have way more impact than who you vote. So it's just, it's not. Not trying to stress that. It's not that voting doesn't matter. I'm a huge advocate of that. Um, said we, we try to vote for everything, um, for the primaries, for mayor, all that stuff, because it matters. Um, but it's the order of operations that matters most. Um, and I guarantee you, you being in a good church, it's going to have far more impact than who's president or not, because they're going to help guide you. They're going to help shepherd you. Um, and we know scripture says to not do this alone. Um, and that, that's unfortunately another trend that we're kind of seeing, um, of professed Christians anyways, that they don't really need organized religion. They don't need the church. I've got my bible, and that's all I need. And that just couldn't be. Couldn't be further from the truth. And if you would read the scripture a little bit more, you would know that that that's not true. So that's something I'm really hammering as well for the audience that voting matters. Yes, but you have to get your life in order. You have to get your, church in order, your relationship with Christ in order, because that's magnitudes much more important than who you vote for. 00:34:59 - Philip Blackett
 And something I'll add to Johnny, our shared enemy, he would love for us to be in isolation. That's part of how he works. If he can get you isolated from the body of Christ, he can get you away from church one Sunday, two Sundays. Don't go to Bible study. They'll go to a small community group, get you away from the Bible, not reading it, not praying. Slowly but surely, a lot of the people that are checking off none as far as religious affiliation, people that have, quote-unquote, deconstructed their faith, a lot of people that have walked away from the church for one reason or another, those are wins for the enemy. And if anything else, like you said before, like that should be a given. Get involved in the Bible-believing church. Be around brothers and sisters who support you along your discipleship. It's one thing to accept God or Jesus as your savior, but now you're on the sanctification process, and that's a day-by-day thing until our last breath. So that sort of process is best done in the community. But if you isolate yourself, you're in the crosshairs of the enemy. 00:36:13 - Johnny Sanders
 Absolutely, 100%. And I think that's what makes the Church so unique. For even on the mental health side of things, we know mental health-wise, anxiety, and depression, increase with isolation. And the church just kind of affirms that that that decreases those things. It's not why we go to church to just decrease anxiety, and depression, and be mentally well, but it's just more of God's grace throughout that, um, that we need that community. Like you said, isolation, you're just set up. And it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when that something's going to go downhill that way. 00:36:50 - Philip Blackett
 Absolutely. 00:36:52 - Johnny Sanders
 Philip, I know we just scratched the surface with all sorts of topics that we could get into today, but I wanted to make sure. I know, I know. 00:37:01 - Philip Blackett
 I really thought we were just getting started. 00:37:04 - Johnny Sanders 
I know. I. The thing that I would say, Philip, is, hey, we can do this again in the future, because, yeah, we just scratched the surface there. But, Philip, where can people find you after the show? Get your books and everything? 00:37:18 - Philip Blackett
 Yeah, so all of my books are available on Amazon. There are six of them. So it might be easier just for you to look up Philip Blackett. My name phi l I p b l a c k e t t. So you can find and Disagree without Disrespect, Jesus Over Black or any of the other books that I have written there. You can also go to my website, www.philipblackett.com, or look me up on social media as well. So just look up my name, Philip Blackett, on Facebook, Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, or YouTube. I'll be there. 00:37:54 - Johnny Sanders
 Fantastic. I'll definitely have the website linked down in the show notes so you guys can check that out. And, yeah, really encourage you to check out his books and just his website and interact on social media there. Philip, it was absolutely wonderful to have you on today. 00:38:09 - Philip Blackett
 My pleasure, Johnny. Happy to be on here. Thanks so much for the opportunity. 00:38:13 - Johnny Sanders
 You bet. Right. And thank you again to everybody who tuned in today and we'll catch you on the next episode.